My 2001 NB Adaptronic install thread - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-22-2009, 06:25 PM   #41
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 232
Total Cats: 0
Default

This has me worried a little about getting Adaptronic, but hopefully it will be more worked out in a couple months when I get mine
AutoFreak57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 07:07 PM   #42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, NJ
Posts: 201
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saboteur View Post
This happened to me as well, exact same scenario. I happened to notice the engine was running backwards (direction of pulley/belt movement reversed), I'm not shitting you.
So how did you fix it and did it ruin the engine?
PhantomRoadster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 10:54 PM   #43
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

If your enrichments are too rich the excess fuel can backfire through the intake. The residual fuel from a unsuccesful crank can be ignited. It shouldn't have hurt anything, though I've seen it blow intercooler plumbing and create some carnage in the process.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 11:12 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomRoadster View Post
So how did you fix it and did it ruin the engine?
Yeah I saw it happen, I had the hood up ready to burp the cooling system and was just cranking the car through the window (not sitting in the seat).

I just cranked it again a few minutes later after checking everything over. No damage was caused, the only thing that needed replacing was my underwear.
timk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 10:58 AM   #45
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

The amount of smoke and unfamiliar smell was the alarming part.

I have an open loop idle question. My extra effort for AC value works noticeable. My problem is with the extra effort for electrical load. Any change I make in this box doesn't seem to do anything. Does the Aux In for electrical load need to be active high or low? I've changed the value from 0 through 100 and notice no difference. The settings for AC are very sensitive even in increments of 1.

I haven't looked at the calculation trace for this yet as I am at work now, but thought someone may have noticed this as well.
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 10:13 PM   #46
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

Anyone know if the electrical load digital input trigger needs to be active low or high? When I turn on a few electrical accessories with the trigger set to low, I get nothing on the calculation trace, idle drops and I can't compensate for this (open loop). When I have it on active high, it doesn't seem to do what I expect it to.

The AC digital input set to active low seems to be fine.

Thanks again for the answers to my other thousand questions.
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 12:36 AM   #47
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granada, Spain
Posts: 336
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgmorr View Post
Anyone know if the electrical load digital input trigger needs to be active low or high? When I turn on a few electrical accessories with the trigger set to low, I get nothing on the calculation trace, idle drops and I can't compensate for this (open loop). When I have it on active high, it doesn't seem to do what I expect it to.

The AC digital input set to active low seems to be fine.

Thanks again for the answers to my other thousand questions.
The only "extra loads" connected to adaptronic in the pnp harness are PSP and AC. BTW there is no need for other electrical load inputs since the closed loop PID will compensate this (headlights, defrost, etc). I think these are the 3 magical steps to complete a perfect idle setup:

- Give full resolution from 0% DC to 100% DC adjusting the idle screw.

- Setup open loop DC to match closed loop target, the same for AC and PSP extra efforts.

- Turn on the PID for closed loop.
ismael_pt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 03:55 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismael_pt View Post
- Give full resolution from 0% DC to 100% DC adjusting the idle screw.
Can you elaborate on this? My idle valve doesn't seem to do much below 50%.

Also, you can account for the fans kicking in if you want, by using the logic stuff:
http://www.adaptronic.com.au/forum/i...hp?topic=969.0

Last edited by timk; 12-28-2009 at 06:54 AM.
timk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:55 AM   #49
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granada, Spain
Posts: 336
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saboteur View Post
Can you elaborate on this? My idle valve doesn't seem to do much below 50%.

Also, you can account for the fans kicking in if you want, by using the logic stuff:
Logic input
Yes! I forget to say the fans are also wired in the pnp loom.

About the idle screw adjusment:



Quote:
The open loop section has to be setup first, in order for closed loop to work.

Initial Setup

1) Start the motor and bring it to operating temperature.
2) Locate the motors idle bypass screw. This is normally around the throttle body or idle control valve/solenoid
3) Within WARI, set the max idle value to 0 and idle the motor to 10-20rpm less than the desired idle by screwing the motors idle bypass screw in or out. This step has to be done with no electrical load (lights/thermo fan) and air-con off. Reset the max idle value to 120 within WARI once base idle is set.

Open Loop Idle Control

Open loop idle control is done via a stepper motor or a PWM idle control solenoid(ICS). The specified idle value is given as a range of stepper motor or % of pulse width modulated idle control solenoid (ICS).

This means that at 0 idle, there is no extra air, and at 120 there is full idle air being added. The RPM which the motor is raised to is dependent on the size of the valve obviously. 120 on a small valve might idle the motor up by 3000rpm on a small motor, but only 300rpm on a large motor.

1) Leave the car to cool to the minimum temperature.

2) Start the car, and adjust the corresponding temperatures open loop idle setting within WARI. This sets the idle valve position at each temperature point. Colder temperatures require a higher value. The value is the amount of stepper motor or % of solenoid required. Adjust this value until the RPM reaches the desired idle value for that temperature(around 100rpm higher when cold, fading down to the desired idle at 50deg.

3) Adjust the air temperature correction similarly

4) Once up to temperature, engage the aircon and adjust the extra aircon effort setting until the RPM increases to 100rpm above your idle setting.

6) Adjust the extra effort after cranking value and duration to suit your motor. This setting will increase the RPM after the car starts by leaving the idle high, for the duration specified.

7) Set the electrical load value. This is the value added to the idle value (for that specific temperature) when the electrical load input is triggered. The electrical load input is programmable via any of the digital inputs.

8) Set the low battery level. This is the amount of idle to the target value (for that specific temperature) when the battery voltage is below 12.00v. This should be left at 0 unless specifically needed.

9) Save the ECU file.


Closed Loop Idle Control

Closed loop idle control works via a PID controller and a table of target speeds and corrections. It uses the same solenoid, but instead of having just a fixed value, the stepper or ICS adjusts its own value to match the target.

1) Adjust the target idle speed table, entering the desired idle values per temperature. (around 100rpm higher when cold, fading to desired RPM at round 60 degrees)

2) Set the electrical load value. This is the amount of RPM added to the target RPM (for that specific temperature) when the electrical load input is triggered. The electrical load input is programmable via any of the digital inputs.

3) Set the low battery value. This is the amount of RPM added to the target RPM (for that specific temperature) when the battery voltage is below 12.00v. This should be left at 0rpm unless specifically needed.

4) The control bands dictate the RPM in which the idle control will commence. This value is given as RPM above the target RPM. Set them around the 50-200rpm mark.

5) Neutral timeout is the amount of time the car is in the idle state before closed loop idle will commence. A setting of 1000ms is ideal for most motors.

6 Set the recovery RPM values and efforts if needed. These are the RPM at which extra effort will be given by the idle control.

PID Control

This guide is not a PID tutorial, it is how to set up a PID controller in the field.

1) Set the target RPM values all to 1000. Set the recovery RPM's to 0. Set the elec load and low batt rpm to 0. This saves these values interfering with tuning.

P) Starting at 0, adjust up by 10. This should bring the rpm closer to the target (1000rpm). Adjust in increments of 10 until the RPM is stable, even if it not on 100rpm. Continue to adjust by increments of 10 until the rpm becomes unstable. This can be done by watching both RPM and IDLE values in the F2 page. Once the RPM become unstable and "hunt" back and forth, adjust the P value lower until stable again. It will most likely not be at the desired RPM but it has to be stable to continue. Go as high as you can before it starts to hunt. Load the motor by loading the power steering or aircon to ensure the idle returns to its stable state quickly.

I) Increase this value by increments of 10 until the RPM converges to 1000rpm. Put load on the motor via the power steering or aircon, and make sure the idle returns to the target setting quickly. A higher I value will make it converge quicker, but can cause an overshoot. A setting of 120 is usually good for stepper motors, and 50 for ICV.
D) This value is rarely needed. It will lag the I value, causing a slower convergence. Low values of 0-20 normally are all that is needed, but it is not recommended.

2) Return the values which were adjusted in step 1 to normal.
Use increments of 1 instead of 10, I think this writing is based on the 420b ecu.
ismael_pt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 03:43 PM   #50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

How do I know if I have too little or too much cranking fuel? Sometimes during cranking the engine seems like it hydro locks and all cranking stops. I attempt to start again, and it seems to be ok. I usually have to go through this cycle.
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2009, 08:40 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismael_pt View Post
Quote:
Open loop idle control is done via a stepper motor or a PWM idle control solenoid(ICS). The specified idle value is given as a range of stepper motor or % of pulse width modulated idle control solenoid (ICS).

This means that at 0 idle, there is no extra air, and at 120 there is full idle air being added. The RPM which the motor is raised to is dependent on the size of the valve obviously. 120 on a small valve might idle the motor up by 3000rpm on a small motor, but only 300rpm on a large motor.
I take it the 120 they talk about is for stepper motors and 100 is the max for our IAC valves since it is a PWM percent?

Great post!
timk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 12:41 AM   #52
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, NJ
Posts: 201
Total Cats: 0
Default

Looks like I'm having the same issues you had trying to start the car. I'll check my plugs tomorrow. After installing everything I've installed in the past few weeks with no experience, I now feel burned out and helpless.
PhantomRoadster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 08:53 AM   #53
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

I was able to get it starting in 10*C and up, but now that it's gotten a lot colder out, I haven't been able to get it going. I'm going to be doing my timing belt and associated maintenance items for now until it gets slightly warmer.
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 10:07 AM   #54
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,583
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomRoadster View Post
Looks like I'm having the same issues you had trying to start the car. I'll check my plugs tomorrow. After installing everything I've installed in the past few weeks with no experience, I now feel burned out and helpless.
Set up a time thats convenient for you and I can work you through it.

Best,
Travis
TravisR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2010, 01:36 PM   #55
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 12
Total Cats: 0
Default

subscribed. good stuff
DecoyOctopus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 08:28 PM   #56
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Subscribed. Congrats on the turbo kit purchase. Let me know if you have any install questions.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:10 PM   #57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

I guess I will turn this into my Adaptronic and turbo install thread.

So I bought a kit from a member here that originally purchased it off Stein. Took me about an hour to take off the stock manifold and put this in. I've got it in loosely to do a test fit. Seems like the 99-00 cars might be slightly different, but still manageable. Anyone have tips on what order to fully tighten things? ie. manifold, turbo then dp?


My camera battery died while I was about to use it, so these will do for now.

dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 10:40 PM   #58
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

On this setup I had the best luck with,

Mani installed and tight, tighten upper part of DP to turbo as you can't reach all of the bolts otherwise, then drop in, loosely bolt to mani. Slide the lower half of the DP on, hang midpipe, bolt together and tighten with a knee under the pipe to hold it up. Then push the works up with a knee and tighten the two lower turbo bolts then tighten the top ones. Finally snug up the DP joint bolt.

If I didn't, it would rattle against the tunnel.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 11:43 PM   #59
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

Did you have to relocate your PS hose or bend the hard line going into the pump out of the way?

I so want to finish it all up tonight, I can almost feel it.

I also have nooooo idea how the heatshield is supposed to be mounted.

EDIT: oops, re-read your PM, and saw the part about the PS line.

Last edited by dgmorr; 02-26-2010 at 12:00 AM.
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 12:01 AM   #60
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Forgot this until you mentioned it. I shortend the hard line coming out of the tank by about 1" and reinstalled the hose. THere are two bumps on the hard line. I cut it off right before the second one. Download the Begi installation manual for the Begi S for 1.8's from their site. Pretty step-by-step directions. Even this step was in that manual.

Heatshield uses two existing holes - closest to the shock is a tapped hole and the rear one is just a through bolt and nut. Find the tapped hole and start a bolt and the rear will be apparent. This was on a 99 so I can only assume it's the same for you.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump $50 lsc224 Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 10:17 AM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:36 AM.