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Replacing MS with Adaptronic?

 
Old 06-23-2010, 03:46 PM
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Default Replacing MS with Adaptronic?

I'm not very happy with the slowish starting off my '99 on Megasquirt (>2 sec cranking sounds short, but measure it sometime).
How fast does a '99 start with an Adaptronic?
I'd like it to start as quickly as this. Does an Adatronic to this too?

Last edited by WestfieldMX5; 06-23-2010 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 06-23-2010, 04:02 PM
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Different people have theirs starting differently, even though a majority of us has pretty much the same settings.

Mine starts just like it did stock. No problems here. Hot restarts were sometimes a bit finicky, taking longer and running rich as hell for about 5-10 seconds or so, but otherwise no starting problems. just my .02
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Old 06-23-2010, 04:09 PM
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my car has never started that fast.

this is typical for me with MS3:






Here's MS1:



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Old 06-23-2010, 04:47 PM
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Starting delay builds oil pressure before it fires
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
I'm not very happy with the slowish starting off my '99 on Megasquirt (>2 sec cranking sounds short, but measure it sometime).
How fast does a '99 start with an Adaptronic?
I'd like it to start as quickly as this. Does an Adatronic to this too?

That's a pretty mental reason to spend 500, just to lop 1 second off your cranking time.

Who's to say that vid wasn't a fluke? I've never even seen an OEM start that quickly...

What's wrong with cranking for 1-2 seconds? Ever watched vids on YT of supercars starting? They crank for a good while before firing up.
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:07 AM
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Strangely my mspnp car starts on the first crank like that caterham.
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:43 AM
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But you have a 1.6, no '99.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:12 AM
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Funny, Y8s wants to swap his Adaptronic for a MS3


have you tried less "skip pulses"?
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:03 AM
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Simply switch to a different ECU won't make short cranks any easier. When I first started out it would take a good 5 tries to get going. The only reason I went with the Adaptronic was because MS doesn't have PnP for 01+.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Funny, Y8s wants to swap his Adaptronic for a MS3


have you tried less "skip pulses"?
For those that know how to properly do an MS3 thats great, but seriously, I've had enough customers that are so tired of dealing with a rehacked 1985 GM computer that is the MS series that they would breather put a bullet in there head then go back to it. You can mark it up to incompetence or whatever, but the MS crowd represents some strange pinnacle of user that borders a mechtronics degree.

So to those that can do it and get away with it for pennies on the dollar compared to some other systems great, but for the rest of the world who wants turn key I can't imagine anyone opting for the MS over any of the other available standalones for this car. I'm not just talking Adaptronic here, but AEM, Hydra, or E-manage I would rate them all as more reliable, and easier to deal with.

One only has to compare the endless lists of "my firmware is corrupted" and "its not working correctly" in the MS forums to verify this. Here in Adaptronic land, if you have a problem with your unit, you can contact me and we will get you a warranty replacement, or I will modify your unit to address any hardware related problems. In MS land you pay for those services, or you could possibly have to scrap the whole system.

I've been around in the automotive aftermarket for a while now. Long enough to have made major mistakes, and one thing that I have learned is that you have to charge the customer enough money to make him happy. As funny as that sounds, you get exactly what you pay for when it comes to products. With the MS you aren't paying much, and so you don't get much. You get potential, which is inherently only realizable by those with the skill and patience to harness it.

In my mind, MS is really advertised as super easy, when most of its adopters aren't even comfortable with engine tuning let alone assembling a hogde podge of integrated circuitry and trouble shooting that system if something were to go wrong. I have personally spent on the phone with some customers more then 30 hours in tech time teaching them first how to get accustomed to the computer and secondly how to tune their engine, god help me if they had to assemble their own circuit boards and create their engine management unit. I give my time freely to my customers I don't mind it all, but at some point, people just want to drive their cars! They don't want to talk to me, they don't want to build circuit boards, they want to boost, and thats what I try to do with the Adaptronic. I try to get them to the fun part as fast as I can, because after all, thats what we're here for.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:38 PM
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Well, my car can idle with A/C and y8s' '01 cant. that's all i gotta say.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:41 PM
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He hasn't contacted me about it, I have 01 cars with turbos, superchargers, and naturally aspirated all running with A/C without problems? Every since I did the diode rework on the units we haven't had idle issues with the 01'.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:48 PM
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One time Steph from BEGi called me and asked how to do something in MegaTune, and I was able to explain it in under 30 hours!
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
He hasn't contacted me about it, I have 01 cars with turbos, superchargers, and naturally aspirated all running with A/C without problems? Every since I did the diode rework on the units we haven't had idle issues with the 01'.
Can someone explain briefly what this diode rework is?
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Can someone explain briefly what this diode rework is?
The diode on the auxiliary outs was too weak to deal with the inductive kickback of the VVT valve. Evidently that kickback was pretty extreme, so we added another diode in parallel to take care of the problem. Since we've done the upgrade the intermittent idle issues with the 01 are completely gone.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:27 PM
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I have officially contacted travis.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
One time Steph from BEGi called me and asked how to do something in MegaTune, and I was able to explain it in under 30 hours!
We're talking about engine tuning from start to finish. Most MS users just assume that engine tuning is rather simple, but in reality thats one of the toughest parts and the only part the end user should have to deal with. Some people don't know what AFR they even need to run, or what too much ignition advance will do to an engine.

The bigger picture is that the base knowledge of people who buy engine management solutions isn't always up to par, so you have to help them get the product going regardless. If you start at a deficit like that, its going to take you more then a hour conversation to get them on the correct page.

I have many installers now telling me that the Adaptronic software is among the easiest to use and the most well laid out, and most people who switch to any other system complain about complexity and fickleness of the system.

Take hydra, and its endless swath of 3D maps, AEM lots of pretty charts, but seriously the implementation of closed loop controllers could cut down on how much the end user has to "tune". Finally take the MS, how long will it take you to get the thing working in the first place, and then still some features don't work perfectly like autotune, some features are non existent, and then there are still a lot of loosely described parts of the tuning software.

The Adaptronic represents an easier tuning solution then most, and its well supported by me and other companies in the market. No tuning solutions are easy though! Do not be fooled, they take time to setup, but in my opinion you can do yourself a big favor by buying a preassembled unit that works, and then trying to tune with it rather then deal with a whole other list of issues in building the thing from mofset up.

Last edited by TravisR; 06-24-2010 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
The diode on the auxiliary outs was too weak to deal with the inductive kickback of the VVT valve. Evidently that kickback was pretty extreme, so we added another diode in parallel to take care of the problem. Since we've done the upgrade the intermittent idle issues with the 01 are completely gone.
Ahh. Can I ask what the old and the new diode part numbers are?
And, is it connected right across the solenoid both before and after the mod?
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Old 07-03-2010, 02:15 AM
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I'll send you an email with this info in it. I've had a computer crash i've been fighting. YAY harddrives!
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