Water temp calibration IS inaccurate in basemap - updated calibration within - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-13-2010, 02:15 AM   #1
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Default Water temp calibration IS inaccurate in basemap - updated calibration within

My car has an oversized alloy radiator with the undertray and very good ducting. It also has a coolant reroute, brand new water pump and all coolant hoses. I'm running straight distilled water in the cooling system which is only a week old.

The Adaptronic logs my coolant temp going up to 108C/226.5F for short periods after giving it a short squirt, but I have yet to do a track day. I was just wondering if you thought this was accurate? It seems a bit on the high side. The stock gauge doesn't seem to move past the 11-11.30 position, and it's not dumping water into the overflow tank. The intake temps can be up to 70C/158F post intercooler; it's been pretty warm here lately.

Has anyone calibrated their coolant sensors? I checked the Adaptronic values with those in the Mazda workshop manual and they are within spec but the range is huge.

Cheers

Last edited by timk; 01-17-2010 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:22 AM   #2
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A lot of the maps here have the values that Stein put on his when he calibrated his sensor with a thermometer/etc.
The rest are the values that Travis provided from his car as well as some others.

So the values are definitely not spot on. If you CAN calibrate yours (meaning you have all the necessary equipment and time) I think it would be a great idea to calibrate it.


That said, my car used to get as high as 120c in the summer after some WOT. Now in the cooler temps and with the reroute/new thermostat it never goes above 100-105.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:27 AM   #3
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Unfortunately I'm not really geared up for it. I could possibly send a spare temp sender to Adaptronic if they can do it, unless one of the engineering guys on here can save us the hassle?
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
A lot of the maps here have the values that Stein put on his when he calibrated his sensor with a thermometer/etc.
The rest are the values that Travis provided from his car as well as some others.
I don't think that I did anything with the water, just used the values supplied. I did do my own IAT, but then after someone posted up the original GM values, I changed mine to that.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:22 PM   #5
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op. since you have a coolant reroute. did you bleed it correctly ? it is very difficult to get it right. 2 ways of doing it right.
1. use a vacuum pump
2. lift the rear of the car up, run the engine, wait till you see a big bubble (radiator will go empty). add water. then you do the same with rear lowered, front raised.

the temp you described is exactly the same as ones that's not bled correctly.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:40 AM   #6
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Thanks for the tips about bleeding, you're probably right about my car. When I burped the cooling system I did it with the radiator as the highest point (had the front of the car on the higher bit of my driveway) but I haven't done this the other way around. Out of interest do you know where the air gets trapped when the car is this way?
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:05 AM   #7
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I should also mention that oil temps don't appear to go over 90C (freeway driving with A/C on) where the coolant temps often sit over 100C. I'll try the coolant burp on the weekend.
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:02 PM   #8
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If someone could tell me the pullup resistance value in the Adap, and a known good curve from another ECU, it shouldn't be hard to figure out the whole curve of voltage vs. temperature. Doesn't EasyTherm from the MS guys do this?
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:18 PM   #9
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I should also mention that oil temps don't appear to go over 90C (freeway driving with A/C on) where the coolant temps often sit over 100C. I'll try the coolant burp on the weekend.
yeap, that sounds like an air pocket. again, it is very difficult to burp it out, even doing rear jack, then front jack thing. it takes a few try.

easiest way is to find a shop with vacuum pump. 10 minutes job.
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:23 PM   #10
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Massaging the upper hose vigorously while idling does it.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:53 PM   #11
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Careful not to go below 25inhg. I found this out when venturi vacuuming my coolant system. Radiator fluid boils pretty good down there. "Jeee, that's an AWFUL LOT OF AIR IN THERE" I kept thinking. Which then turned into... WAIT that's not air, that's boiling liquid.


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yeap, that sounds like an air pocket. again, it is very difficult to burp it out, even doing rear jack, then front jack thing. it takes a few try.

easiest way is to find a shop with vacuum pump. 10 minutes job.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:22 PM   #12
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Massaging the upper hose vigorously while idling does it.
That sounds like lots of fun but I'm using the M-Tuned hose with reinforcing anti-kink spring so you can't squeeze it!!

I'll let you know how things turn out over the weekend.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
If someone could tell me the pullup resistance value in the Adap, and a known good curve from another ECU, it shouldn't be hard to figure out the whole curve of voltage vs. temperature. Doesn't EasyTherm from the MS guys do this?
As per this thread, the Adaptronic runs a 4.7k pullup resistor for coolant and air temp:
V10Q Firmware upgrade (Also V10R beta)- 37050 errors after Flashit Verify

His info seems reliable.

Don't know if this info is of any use:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=338768

Cheers

Last edited by timk; 01-14-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:00 AM   #14
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I got these numbers from cjernigan and then worked out the ADC values:

Temp, Resistance, ADC value
0c 6000 2296
40c 1100 776
80c 320 261

The values aren't really matching up to those in the basemap so there's some inaccuracies somewhere. :(
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:04 PM   #15
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OK, I grabbed another 99 coolant temp sendor and did some testing. I boiled a saucepan of water and measured the resistance between pins A and B. I could get the resistance as low as 189 Ohms (I think it flashed at 188 at one stage but it was steady on 189).

189 Ohms converted to ADC is 158, the basemap has an ADC value of 180 in the 100C row. So according to my test, the Adaptronic will report the temp as being 108C when it is actually 100C.

Can someone else do this same test? Not sure how accurate my multimeter is, so I'd like confirmation.

Cheers
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:24 PM   #16
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Here is a graph I made (ADC values not resistance) showing the error margin comparing the basemap with the DIY values. I filled in the gaps using the Steinhart-Hart equation:



This equation is the same one used by EasyTherm for MegaSquirt, it seems to be very accurate.

I will post up a screenshot of the new settings soon. They should be a lot closer than the old basemap settings.

Last edited by timk; 01-17-2010 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:34 PM   #17
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This post is now redundant.

Last edited by timk; 01-17-2010 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:36 AM   #18
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Here's the final result:



Let me know how you go!

Cheers
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:55 AM   #19
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frickn' legend!

this will help a LOT of ppl
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Old 01-17-2010, 10:57 AM   #20
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Nice work. Significant difference between 25 to 70. It looks like the fans will still kick on and off at roughly the same temps.
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