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Old 06-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #21
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I will explain the controls.

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Old 06-06-2013, 05:05 PM   #22
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You are partially right about what the ECUs are capable of and what AEM has them do. You also need to take into consideration what goes into the logic of the VE calculations. Some may have very basic calculations and some have very complex calculations. It is possible the calculation on the Infinity will not even run on the MS1, PS2000, adaptronic.. IMO the other VE calculator lack basic variables that really make the VE calculation work. saying you have "VE calculation" is a really broad statement.
There is still only so much involved in the standard calculation its really simple math that gets you from a VE number, a desired AFR and all the sensor input, anything else like transients are not part of the standard VE math. And are almost always handled separately. I want to see if they use real OEM level transients or just stomp comp like the EMS4, the EMS4 processor is fast enough to handle wall wetting transients and any normal VE at the same time. The devil is in the interpolation between cells, and how good your interpolation is.


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Its not necessarily skimping on anything as much as it may be volume. If AEM can double the sales of MoTeC ECUs then they can charge half the price.
I would never expect them to be able to sell WAY more volume than the big guys. Though I expect, the big guys has some comfortable profit margins.


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No Flex fuel support either...
Its not like it has enough inputs for it anyways. I'm using all the I/Os on the EMS4 just to run a turbo vvt car with vics.

Ben, just download the tuning software. Catalog & Software Downloads - Wideband O2 UEGO, Water/Methanol, Stand Alone Engine Management, Piggyback F/IC, Tru Boost Controller, Gauges, Automotive Performance Electronics I havent had a chance to look at it yet. Maybe its better than than AEM tuner, or like AEM tuner it'll look like a super awesome interface that might be the only major brand standalone interface that doesnt suck, but suck once you go to use it.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #23
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I don't know enough about any software yet for that to tell me anything. Plain and simple, i just want to know what makes it better than the other flex fuel capable standalones on the market. What can it do when it comes to the boost maps and modifying it based on ethanol percentage that other systems can't?

I honestly don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have a Miata that would really benefit much from a cutting edge EMS, nor will i ever.

I'm just wanting to sponge some knowledge and learn because i like to.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:27 PM   #24
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As an example Flex Fuel in the Series II works something like this. You have Base fuel, Timing, and Boost target tables. Then AEM Adds duplicate tables for Fuel, Timing and Boost targets(Trim, RPM, VSS, Gear, TPS). Plus some extra starting tables. For each Fuel, Timing, and Boost you get blend tables. This is designed for you to tune pump gas on the base tables, E85 on the Flex tables and then you tune each blend table to maintain the correct timing, AFR and, Manifold pressure as Flex content changes. Pretty straight forward. This also requires you to use the boost target comp method of boost tuning.

Some other systems do not have as many AUX maps to tune for Flex, do not have the resolution in those tables, Do not allow you to modify the rate of blend, do not have flex boost control, or additional tables for flex starting.

Now, In the Infinity. The only thing that is the same is Ignition. Base table, Flex table and a blend table. Flex Fuel is part of the VE calculation. You get a Lambda Table 2, Flex Stoichiometric AFR v. Flex Content and a Lambda Flex Blend table. You will define your Lambda Table 2(speed density or AlphaN) just as you would a lambda VE table but you will use the stoich value of the fuel you are using. Because the stoichiometric ratio of E85 is different than pump gas the ECU needs to calculate for the difference in Lambda of the fuel being used. The Flex Stoichiometric AFR v. Flex Content table allows you to set what the stoichiometric ratio of the fuel you are using based off of flex content. When running pump gas you are 14.7:1. When running E100 you are 9.0:1. There will be a linear line between those points. The Flex blend table, this is where you will set the bled ratio based on flex content. There are some Flex starting tables as well. Pretty easy, huh?

For boost control you have 2 Base duty tables and 2 target tables, All 10x10. You can set all of the Duty and Target tables to whatever axis you want from a choice of: Air Temp, BARO Pressure, Trim SW, Coolant temp, Exhaust back pressure, RPM, Flex %, Gear, Inj Pressure, Launch Ramp time, MIL Output, TPS, Turbo Shaft speed and, VSS. You can set the base duty 1 table to Boost target(KPa) v. RPM and tune those target levels. You can define your target tables however you want. The 4 axis of the target tables will add to total your "boost target". Just as long as one of your axis is flex content you can determine what boost level you want to run based on Flex%. This allows for a lot of flexibility when tuning boost control. Just as you have the ability to set each axis you also have the ability to define the breakpoints as you choose. If you want the TPS resolution to be 10% - 50% then 100% you can do that. If you want to give yourself higher resolution in your target boost areas you can set the Boost target breakpoints to between 100-250kpa. No need for boost targets in vacuum. This goes for every table in the software not just the boost control. More boost table axis will come in later firmware updates based upon user request. Questions?

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Old 06-06-2013, 10:43 PM   #25
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There is still only so much involved in the standard calculation its really simple math that gets you from a VE number, a desired AFR and all the sensor input, anything else like transients are not part of the standard VE math. And are almost always handled separately. I want to see if they use real OEM level transients or just stomp comp like the EMS4, the EMS4 processor is fast enough to handle wall wetting transients and any normal VE at the same time. The devil is in the interpolation between cells, and how good your interpolation is.
I think AEM is moving on past the GEMS based systems. The new firmware will for Series II be the last and I am not sure about the EMS-4. I believe they are expecting the Infinity 4 and 8H to replace the EMS-4/Series II. Trying to get them to further develop those systems will take away from moving forward onto the Infinity platform.

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Its not like it has enough inputs for it anyways. I'm using all the I/Os on the EMS4 just to run a turbo vvt car with vics.
This is my biggest gripe with the EMS-4. Lack of I/Os. Honestly, I don't like to use it.

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... Maybe its better than than AEM tuner, or like AEM tuner it'll look like a super awesome interface that might be the only major brand standalone interface that doesnt suck, but suck once you go to use it.
What is your issue with AEMTuner? Infinity Tuner sucks when you don't have anyone to show you how to use it. A short explanation of some of the basic features and I am sure you will be very impressed. It has the ability to do math channels, do channel conversions, hot key math channels that are user definable, generate channel data based on slider bars.... Setting up the software to your liking can be a bit frustrating but once you dial it it will work very well. The ECU only thinks in metric and Lambda. If you want to display AFR or Imperial channels you have to do math channels for the conversion. They are already set up for you. Those types of things are really cool and weird at the same time. This is not a system for vendors who do not support. AEM will cut you off...

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Old 06-06-2013, 11:19 PM   #26
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So the flex fuel logic works like flex fuel logic is supposed to, more or less.

My problems with AEM tuner mostly revolve around it not giving enough control and the tab layout. I'm slowly working on fixing the 2nd one but it takes a lot of work and some of it isnt possible. Or how when you click into a table sometimes it scrolls the screen all weird and tries to center the cells on the screen, as if I wasnt trying to look at the whole table like I had the view setup before clicking in. And I dont like how a lot of things are just non-standard. Like the P for idle control is a weird inverse P. The post start enrichment table either has a really weird name or doesnt exist. Things like that
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:42 PM   #27
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Everyone does PIDs differently. The Infinity has a different calculator between the ems4/SII and infinity. I use a small resolution laptop for tuning so I get where you are coming from there. I have set all of my tabs to exactly what I want in the size I can handle. When you use a 16"+ screen it definately is a lot better.

I use AEMs a lot. I am really used to the control strategy. On other lesser systems I find myself trying to replicate. Not being able to run AlphaN with boost comp and have proper working staged injection is very frustrating. I love complex open loop strategies. Closed loop is not a crutch. You would be suprised how many ecus don't allow or make it super complicated to have TPS and MAP as a load scaler.

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Old 06-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #28
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So the flex fuel logic works like flex fuel logic is supposed to, more or less.
You would think this would be standard. It isn't. Some systems have very poor flex fuel integration. Even though they may make corrections for flex, They lack a lot of the basic controls to make flex fuel work properly.

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