Z33Taxi

Just a little teaser of this last track weekend. I had my first off at a track and kissed some tires. The car is fine, the front bumper just needs some massaging. I'm fine, the safety gear did its job. I did not advance into DE3 even though I think I should have. After the off my lap times continued to drop, but the instructor didn't like some of my lines and I didn't give a point by even though the guy came up to me after to tell me how quick I was. O well. Last track event of the year for me. Time for winter tear down and prep.

Hitting everything, but the Apex

The aftermath

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

That's good that it's mostly just cosmetic.

But I mean you've got to understand why you wouldn't be moved to the next level after stuffing it into a wall and also not giving people behind you a point by right...

If a car is behind you, just point them by. DE isn't so much about lap times as it is driving within your limits and track etiquette.

Z33Taxi

Yeah the wall was a leaning experience. Made me much more heads up and faster the next day

Schroedinger

I've got over 30 track days under my belt right now, and I'm still running in Intermediate groups- even in my Cayman S, which is a fast car. I followed a similar trajectory to you; by the time I got to 8 or 10 track days I was putting down pretty good lap times and getting lots of point by's. What I struggled with was consistency; every track day I'd have a few flyer laps that were really fast, but my average laps were typically 2-3 seconds off the pace. I really had to push hard to get the fast laps, and had a lot of sketchy moments where I was pushing beyond my comfort level and abilities.

I've since ridden with instructors and have worked hard on the fundamentals. All the pushing and risk-taking in the world will not overcome a bad racing line, or bad execution of braking/heel toe/throttle out etc. Most importantly you always, always have to have your eyes up and be looking ahead. It seems strange that you have to slow down to speed up, but it is absolutely true. Every lap counts... warm up, cool down, following slower drivers... all of them are opportunities to perfect the line and work on the details.

My guess is that your instructor saw that you still need development in these areas which is why you're not progressing. Keep riding with instructors and work on the little stuff, all it takes is patience. It's just experience, the skills will come. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.

Z33Taxi

Palmer Motorsports Park CCW --->


This was an overall good weekend considering. On the first day, 2nd session, I approached an apex way to early and locked my brakes, which sent me into a tire wall. I put the car up on jacks and all my alignments markings lined up and everything checked out torque was. I had to cut away some of the bumper and get creative with some tape, but it ran the rest of the weekend without an issue. The car, even previous to the crash, developed a "clunk" under heavy braking or under weight transfer to the rear. Prior to the event I went and checked all the bushings, but maybe I missed one. Its my number one priority this winter. I tested for DE3 and didn't make it. The instructor said if I went to the next event he could see my advancing to 3, but this is my was my last event for the year.
PB Lap: 2:06.6
Engine:
-Monsterflow intake
-SuperMiata radiator
Suspension:
-Stock
Drivetrain:
-Factory 3.9 Torsen
- SM clutch
- SM 9 lb Aluminum flywheel
Interior:
-Spec Miata ultrashield seats Driver/passenger bolted to floor
-Hard dog double diagonal w/ harness bar
- Racequip harnesses
-Momo Steering wheel w/ Nrg hub and quick detach
Brakes:
- DTC60 Front
- DTC30 Rear
-Centric blanks rotors
-FM SS brake lines
Wheels/Tires:
- Kosei K1 15x7
- Nitto NT05 205/50r15
Last session of the day, ran my PB of 2:06.6. The session was cut short because one of the racers ran out of fuel and it took them forever to get him some.


What I need to work on:

Consistency:
- I'm getting faster with every event and my times go down throughout the event. This has turned out to be good and bad at the same time. When I get faster my confidence builds and I loose focus, which leads to dumb mistakes like locking and going into a tire wall. I will say that after my crash my sectors times improved through there significantly and I became more consistent. I need to be more focused on faster average times, than my fastest time.
Shift points/
- My heel toes have improved drastically, but I have a hang up of downshifting through 2 gears. This was another gripe of my instructors. He didn't understand why in some areas, most the straight, that I would hold the car almost at redline instead of upshifting. My rationale was that I didn't see an advantage in upshifting just to immediately down shift. There are some area where I held 3rd too long and definitely could have gone into 4th. This of course costs me speed, but I get caught up in being comfortable and safe. I wish there were more opportunities to have people in the car with me, but that's not allowed in DE2.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

The best tip that I have is to stop shuffle steering. There is almost no one that is fast that does this. Grab onto 9 and 3 and the only reason your hands leave the wheel is to shift, to give hand signals, or to catch a slide etc. No repositioning your hand placement before entering a corner whatsoever.

Also don't hold the car at redline, just make the shift. It's just DE so worst case is you get some extra practice for heel toe downshifting. You'll eventually get good enough at it that it's almost a muscle memory movement and you don't even think about it at all while it's happening in braking zones.

You're making good progress, keep at it.

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

There's a relatively easy fix to this in most scenarios: skip shift the downshift. What I mean by that is go straight from 5 to 3 with a single heel-toe. With skipping one of the shifts when you go down two gears it's no different than just heel toeing down a single gear like you do every other time.

Now, with that, I will say that going into 2nd like you do at Palmer is tricky. 2nd gear is an awkward downshift with a stock shifter on a Miata I've learned. It's made especially harder since with downshifting into lower gears like that (1st or 2nd for example) the road speed has to be much closer to the driveline speed for a smoother shift, so the car has be slowed down a bit more pre-downshift compared to say going from 4th to 3rd where you can smoothly over rev the crap out of the engine if you really wanted to without upsetting the car much. So, going into Turn 4 at Palmer, it appears it would be best to do a double downshift the traditional way. 4th to 3rd at the start of braking and then 3rd to 2nd as the car gets slowed down further. They don't need to be rapid fire downshifts right behind each other. See example below, at around the 4:20 mark:


In your video you appear to be overbraking because you are trying to force the car into 2nd gear, then flooring it to get speed back way before the apex. That Turn 4-5 S-complex will be much easier to manage once you learn how to manage that braking zone with the appropriate downshifts. It's a learned skill and takes a TON of practice, but like people have said once you get it down it'll all happen like second nature and you won't have to devote any mental capacity to performing the heel toe sequence any more. The good thing is that you are continuing to practice and getting better at it, and it definitely shows that you are making progress.

Yes, this for sure. You simply can't have fast hands with shuffle steering. You're making extra motions both physically and mentally and it looks like your turn in points suffer from the slight hesitation of moving your hands before turning in. Watch all the Spec Miata videos of the tracks you go to and see how firmly and aggressively they grab the wheel and force the car to point exactly where they want it. You can't do that if you move your hands for each turning adjustment.

Finally, your rationale of not seeing the advantage of upshifting just to downshift again is probably a good justification from your instructor to keep you in Intermediate for a little longer, especially combined with still working on consistent heel toe. I personally believe heel toe is an intermediate skill, so until you nail that it's hard to justify being bumped to an advanced run group. An advanced driver will see the benefit of upshifting even if it means an immediate downshift and will be able to manage that transition.

Now, with all that said, I am far from an expert as I am only in DE3 myself and have not done any competitive driving. But, I feel you can take some constructive criticism as it is clear you want to learn and are striving for progress. As a Fire Instructor responsible for training new recruits (all with Type A personalities) a ton of new skills in a very short amount of time, I totally understand where you are coming from when you see progress (lower lap times) but feel you're being held back in Intermediate. From my experience in teaching firefighting, those that typically feel they are being held back and want to advance the quickest are usually the ones that need to be slowed down and have some fundamentals hammered into them a bit more. Again, I say all this to try to help as I just went through the HPDE ladder myself and am helping a friend much like you that feels he is "stuck" in DE2. Learn to appreciate the time you have on track, regardless of run group, and work solely on trying to improve bit by bit in small, manageable chunks. You're not going to get it all in one session, day, or weekend. You'll ultimately be a better driver by taking it slow and nailing consistency rather than having a quick lap time that's not consistently repeatable. Again, just trying to provide some constructive feedback to help you grow, because like you said you can't really have additional people in the car with you (other than instructors) in DE2.

P.S. - sorry for the long-winded post, but this is the last thing I'll say: I personally am still struggling with all the same stuff you are, just at a more focused level. Meaning I still want to work on my downshifting, I still want to turn in better, I still want to brake harder and later. We are all always striving to improve, even when already 90% there. So my point is that you'll get there...and then still keep wanting more. That's the joy of doing what we do. Chasing perfection is fun. But it's also a lot of hard work.

P.S.S. - enjoy the relatively open track and actually getting point bys in DE2. Once you get to 3 it's a total clusterfuck full of people who got bumped up too fast and shouldn't be there. I had an entire DAY at my last event where I got a SINGLE CLEAN LAP and I easily have the slowest car in the group by far. I'm about to check ride in TT just to get better quality track time even though my car is totally under prepared.

TL;DR - you're doing fine, keep it up

Z33Taxi

I've received more feedback, which is greatly appreciated, in this thread than I did from my instructor. The reason why getting into DE3 was so important to me is so I could have more people in the car and have more opportunities for instruction. I emailed this instructor 2 weeks before the event and asked him what he was looking for and I never got a reply, he just doesn't seem to be as enthusiastic about hoping into cars and helping people out as much as some of the TT and SM guys.

Either way I had a lot of fun this season and I'm looking forward to next season, which will more than likely be in the Mid-A region.

I took my bumper off last night and put the car on jacks to deep dive into the damage. Nothing to write home about: a slightly bent bumper support, which was straightened out with a hammer. My plastic air dam cracked, but nothing lost there. That's it, luckily.

thanks for all the advice

Schroedinger

For whatever it's worth... in my limited experience with NASA events, the quality of instructors was very iffy. The first one I had absolutely sucked, he barely talked to me and was frequently late for sessions with no excuse. The second one I had was better but he basically kicked himself out of my car and pushed me to DE2 after two sessions even though I would have rather had instruction the whole weekend. I'm sure they're all not like this but I got the distinct impression that they were going to do the least amount possible to get their free track time. My experience with PCA and BMWCCA has been way different- very committed and experienced instruction. You could consider changing groups for an event or two to get driver development, most groups are glad to put you into novice if you haven't driven with them before.

Z33Taxi

Luckily I have a few friends in the Mid-A who are also instructors. I'm hoping that they're more eager to jump in the passenger seat

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

This is spot on. While I've been on the luckier side with getting good to outstanding instructors, there are others that my friends had that were absolutely terrible. I rode with one "instructor" who was instructing my buddy for the weekend because he had a N/A Porsche that he had put an aftermarket turbo kit on and it looked like a rocket ship of a car. When we went out during the session his driving was very underwhelming, and then he COMPLETELY MISSED A CORNER. Like literally forgot to turn into Hogpen (turn 17-17a) at VIR and we rode through the grass WOT until he realized what was going on. Once we got back on track he said "damn, didn't see that corner, huh?" I couldn't get out of that car fast enough.

There's no denying that the NASA HPDE ladder is far from the best "Driving Education" environment. Though, I will say I have had some very good instructors that have really pushed me to learn and grow and I am so thankful to have gotten assigned them. One was a TT'er with a stupid fast S2000 and the other was a Spec 944 racer (now building for Spec E46) that's also raced as a stand-in driver in the Pirrelli World Challenge series. But they are definitely hit or miss and I'm glad to no longer be relying on/dealing with instructors in the car anymore.

I've strongly considered attending Instructor Clinic in the Mid-Atlantic region as I know I'll be one of the better ones. I may not be the most experienced driver, but I know I'm a good instructor (communication, learning the audience, working toward specific student goals, etc). I'd probably put more time and effort into making a student's weekend worthwhile than the average instructors that I've seen. However, every time I go out and see how some of the people in DE1 and 2 drive even with instructors in the car with them, I can't help but think if it's worth the free track time to possibly get put into a wall with a student who refuses to listen to instruction...I've read too many horror stories I guess.

I'll gladly run into a burning building with a rookie on his first day on the job, but riding with that guy in the Porsche really opened my eyes to the helplessness of being along for the ride in the right seat of a bad driver's high HP car...

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

I used to be an instructor with NASA but will pretty much no longer ride shotgun with people that I don't 100% trust on track. No more strangers that's for sure.

But the part about some NASA instructors being either mediocre or just outright bad is definitely true, they get compensated with track time and there are pretty much no qualifications necessary to be one other than being in DE4/TT/Race. That being said there are some pretty awesome ones as well, just luck of the draw.

Keep posting here and asking questions and you'll keep getting answers. This forum is probably one of the most densely populated sites with good fast drivers out of all the places you can go on the internet that are focused on amateur level racing.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

Yeah instructors can definitely be hit or miss, though not entirely limited to NASA. I've unfortunately seen first hand some bad experiences with instructors. I gave a guy a check-ride from DE2 to DE3, gave him some feedback good and bad. He went on and on how I was the best instructor he's ever had, thanking me for the input. What's sad is I gave him what I thought was a pretty mediocre experience Ever since then I try to do my best with any student I have, around that time I got to start doing some TT check-rides too. As cliche as it sounds, you get as much from it as you put back into it.

BTW, I watched your crash video. I think if you would have just cranked more wheel into it, you would have been fine. Car didn't look that loaded up and it wasn't at a super high rate of speed. Lessons learned! Trust me, I've been there

Z33Taxi

This weekend I'll be purchasing the SSM sway bar kit. I currently run 200tw tires, but will most likely start to step into the 100tw as I buy spare wheels and make them dedicated for track use. I'm going with the recommended 54103 front, which is the 1.125" RB bar. Later on down the road I'll pick up the thicker bar when I start to run R7s.


Anyone know if SSM is having a black friday sale? Would love to pick up a set of 800/500 Xidas.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

Just get the biggest bars and grow into it. They're adjustable anyways and if you're going to get Xidas I would email them and ask about spring rates. I'd definitely be looking at higher spring rates than 800/500.

Z33Taxi

That's a good idea. I just went by the numbers on their site to get the 800/500

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

I have the 800/500 with 54103 front bar and 100tw Toyo R888Rs. I still haven't even adjusted the stiffness of either bar yet from full soft and the car feels quite balanced. I'll be starting to play with suspension adjustments next year.

I think 800/500 is what was recommended for a non-aero, non-Hoosier car. Good thing is you can always up the spring rate later, so that's what I went with since the car is still mostly stock. I have not been disappointed at all. But yes, give them a call and they will give you recommendations.

Z33Taxi

I'm extremely bored at work, so I figured I might as well write down my goals for this off season. They seem a bit loft, well expensive, especially since I'm also doing a few home renovations and hoping to move before next summer.


They aren't in any particular order

• Exhaust
  • -RB Header (to be installed)
  • 2.5" mid pipe. Undecided. Will probably go with a catted midpipe to pass NYS inspection, then go custom midpipe in VA with a "fake cat"
  • RB exhaust
• Square top
• Xidas 800/500
  • with the spherical mounts (additional NASA points for mounts??)
• SSM sway bar kit, 54103 front
• Sadfab Delrin control arm kit
  • Replace eccentric bolts
  • Diff bushings
• Remove dashboard
  • Make dash easier to remove
  • remove weight
  • tidy up wires
• Rebuild/ new front brakes or Sport brake
  • Brake ducting
  • Find cause of "knock" under braking or weight transfer
• Install Water temp and Oil Pressure gauge
• Get front bumper repainted
  • Cut and polish to remove bumps/bruises/scrapes on fender
• Radiator ducting
• Coolant reroute
• Oil cooler
• BTM undertray
• Learn to do my own alignments

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

Just get the 2.25" RB test pipe. It's the same size as the exhaust and the header outlet. Don't get a 2.5". Also the billet coaxial mounts on the coilovers don't count for the spherical bushings mod factor. I would highly suggest just reading the rules front to back and really take note of the free modifications section as well.

cabowabo

If it's a street car that has to pass inspection just run a cat, you're not losing anything. I've run an Enthuza OBDII cat for years and it still doesn't throw codes, makes power just fine, and doesn't stank for street driving. Makes 136whp (SAE corrected for NASA) with junkyard BP4W, RB header / midpipe / muffler.