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-   -   2002 VVT swap into 1990 NA with MS3 (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/2002-vvt-swap-into-1990-na-ms3-80250/)

MX5RACER 10-07-2014 12:41 PM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1157265)
Why do you guys assume a i/h/e vvt engine should make 140whp?
Because emilio did it on some of their cars?
Pretty sure vvt does nothing for peak power gains on a n/a car (at least significantly).
Variation in output can easily vary 13hp between different cars, dyno's, locations, days, etc.

I dunno, just seems like everyone is stuck on numbers when we start talking about this stuff. Like 140 would be amazing, and 128 is crap. Which, to me, is funny.

The first dyno runs with my VVT swapped '90 was 128hp. Further testing and part changes have resulted in 143hp. One tip I can give you, start with a '99-'00 VICS manifold if you cannot get a Flat-top.

VICS manifold vs the VVT stock VTCS manifold (With Butterflies):
Attachment 125156

Last change was to a Racing Beat header from a Jackson Racing Header (Also completely changed the full exhaust so it is not apples to apples):
Attachment 125157

curly 10-07-2014 01:13 PM

Yeah, we definitely are leaving some power on the table with the VTCS manifold. I think he's already eying a flat top or VICS at some point.

The VCTS is completely deleted though. I cut the bar into 3 small pieces, then drilled at tapped the manifold flange for m6x1 set screws, and JB welded them in place to hold the bars in.

greddygalant 10-07-2014 01:35 PM

Needs more Rotrex and e85 :D
I hope to swing by today and check this thing out

oregonmon 10-08-2014 03:43 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Many photos of VVT swap.

Curly acting like he doesn't know what he's doing, plot twist he does.
Attachment 238810

But he doesn't know how to sim race. What is this hand technique?
Attachment 238811

Healthy but extremely grimey and oily 1.6 is out.
Attachment 238812

Empty engine bay before serious OCD cleaning began.
Attachment 238813

oregonmon 10-08-2014 03:46 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Sprayed engine bay and subframe down heavily with Simple Green, scrub brush and pushed it into the driveway for hosing down. Salmon and wildlife be damned. :(
A leaky valve cover over the years made for a thick grime that really needed to be adressed.
Attachment 238805

The tranny was black as well. More late night scrubbing and beer while Curly did real work.
Attachment 238806
Turned out pretty well.

Supermiata flywheel installed.
Attachment 238807

Cleaned engine bay pics.
Attachment 238808
Attachment 238809
Quite satisfying really.

oregonmon 10-08-2014 03:47 AM

8 Attachment(s)
You can see Max leaning against the hood and supervising, finally dropping the engine in.
Attachment 238797

He's not looking to pleased with our technique.
Attachment 238798

Ehh, what does a 4 year old know anyway. It slid right in.
Attachment 238799

Isn't he something folks? CSTG for life.
Attachment 238800

Enthuza's metal core cat installed. 94-97 header + 94-97 cat bolts to 1.6 Racing Beat mid pipe and muffler.
Attachment 238801

Alright so Josh spent some time hooking things back up and tidying up hoses and wires. Plenty more to do including running individual wires to MS. We're waiting for the correct 99, 00 fuel rail and a 1.8 NA alternator pulley, 2 items that caught us unprepared. Josh is great at finding little bits, brackets and pieces that are useless in the engine bay. WEIGHT SAVINGS, is his motto.
Here's where we are as of now and I'm extremely happy how it looks in the engine bay.

Attachment 238802
Attachment 238803
Attachment 238804

18psi 10-08-2014 10:35 AM

Nice progress, good job you guys :D


Originally Posted by MX5RACER (Post 1173671)
The first dyno runs with my VVT swapped '90 was 128hp. Further testing and part changes have resulted in 143hp. One tip I can give you, start with a '99-'00 VICS manifold if you cannot get a Flat-top.

VICS manifold vs the VVT stock VTCS manifold (With Butterflies):
Attachment 125156

Last change was to a Racing Beat header from a Jackson Racing Header (Also completely changed the full exhaust so it is not apples to apples):
Attachment 125157

I think you guys are misunderstanding where I was going with that. I was just saying that its kinda funny to argue between 5-10hp when sometimes weather and altitude can account for that much between different cars/runs.

But I guess I'm thinking in turbo power terms, where 5-10hp isn't really worth talking about, whereas you n/a guys pay way more attention to the very last 1hp.

Thanks for the plots though, I've seen those before and it always amazes me how big the drop is on the vtcs mani past 6300

curly 10-08-2014 12:26 PM

2 Attachment(s)
It's now 90% wired, with just the AIT left in the engine bay, and inside needs the 3rd and 4th injector wire and VVT actuator wire soldered to the MS3 plug. Then we're probably going to switch the wideband to the dedicated 12v and ground that Rev provides, and once we get a fuel rail (hopefully Monday or Tuesday) we can plumb the fuel lines and try to start it. GarageStar alternator pulley for the 1.6 alternator should be here today.

Unfortunately I failed at capturing just how clean the wiring is, although I'm not really 100% happy with it. I set it up with nice smooth curves, but once you wrap it with electrical tape, it likes to do what ever the fuck it wants.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412785565

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412785565

Midtenn 10-08-2014 06:26 PM

Looking good guys.

Oscar 10-08-2014 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1173946)
It's now 90% wired, with just the AIT left in the engine bay, and inside needs the 3rd and 4th injector wire and VVT actuator wire soldered to the MS3 plug. Then we're probably going to switch the wideband to the dedicated 12v and ground that Rev provides, and once we get a fuel rail (hopefully Monday or Tuesday) we can plumb the fuel lines and try to start it. GarageStar alternator pulley for the 1.6 alternator should be here today.

Unfortunately I failed at capturing just how clean the wiring is, although I'm not really 100% happy with it. I set it up with nice smooth curves, but once you wrap it with electrical tape, it likes to do what ever the fuck it wants.

Please post bigger and fuzzier pictures. I like squinting and scrolling left to right:fawk:

Twist the loom before taping, holds its shape better and is easier to route.

Mobius 10-08-2014 09:05 PM

Only in Ryan's garage do you have to worry about, when laying on the floor, your shirt getting the floor dirty.

oregonmon 10-08-2014 11:47 PM

I'm no good at actually working on the car so I keep the pots washed for the executive chef Curly.

Mobius 10-09-2014 12:17 AM

You've seen my garage. Jealous of your epoxy.

curly 10-09-2014 12:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Beyond the slight lack of tools, Ryan's garage is an absolute joy to work in. The floor surface, ample room, and two work benches make me so jealous.

Here's the final engine shot:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412828574

In this picture, it's 100% wired, and the only plumbing left is the fuel lines and the FPR vacuum line, which we have to wait on the '99 rail before installing.

Also waiting on some instructions from Rev on how to jumper his MS3 for sequential fuel. That'll be an interesting learning curve.

oregonmon 10-09-2014 01:26 AM

6 Attachment(s)
3 cars plus kids stuff and storage makes it a priority. Is it wrong for the garage to get precedence over the rest of the house?

Behold true CAI.
Attachment 238787
3
Piles of stuff no one needs.
Attachment 238788
Here's airbag looms and sensor, each sensor weighs about 1lb each. (not all shown) There's 2 in the passenger front fender and 1 in the driver's side, plus the wiring behind the fender liners. During the mild fender roll, I cut about half the fender liners out and pulled the blue looms out. About 4.5-5lbs of weight there.
Attachment 238789

Cleaned fender wells only looked worse.
Before paint.
Attachment 238790
After some flat black paint.
Attachment 238791

CSTG running wires.
Attachment 238792

More tidying up the engine bay and 90% of the wiring complete. Awesome work Josh. We have some tweaking to do to the intake and bracket so it will sit straight.

On break for a few days while we wait for a couple parts to come in.

aidandj 10-09-2014 11:21 AM

If you get a chance could I get a couple more pictures of the flipped mixing manifold, and how the heater hose gets rerouted?

curly 10-17-2014 10:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
That was easy.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1413600072

Afr map looks a little lean in lower cells, might have something to do with the blue header.

Otherwise runs good, just have to wire in the other two injector channels properly, they're currently shoved in 2u and 2v, as 1x and 2a weren't working as rev said. We'll figure that out tomorrow. I'm thinking when he suggest those pins, he meant surgically remove them from the harness and clip them into the currently empty 2u and 2v.

Reverant 10-18-2014 04:47 AM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1176577)
I'm thinking when he suggest those pins, he meant surgically remove them from the harness and clip them into the currently empty 2u and 2v.

This.

curly 10-18-2014 08:42 AM

Gotcha, will do.

Although I think those are some of the bigger clips on the end, are we sure the smaller ones will fit?

Reverant 10-18-2014 09:37 AM

I said 1A and 2X, which are the bigger-type pins, just like 2Y and 2Z.


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