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We even tried duplicating settings we could think of from my basemap on the MSM last night, no luck. All though I did get to experience my first 'nice' warm restart idle surging... gotta figure that out on mine next.
We even tried duplicating settings we could think of from my basemap on the MSM last night, no luck. All though I did get to experience my first 'nice' warm restart idle surging... gotta figure that out on mine next.
Did your issue resolve as you drove or did it continue at stop lights on the way home?
Did your issue resolve as you drove or did it continue at stop lights on the way home?
Yup, it got solid again within a few minutes, so its likely some heatsoak MAT issue. I'm going to tinker as I had mostly been doing drives and then home to park, so I hadn't come up against it yet.
With EVERYTHING running though, it was still dipping a bit to low full stops for my comfort so it needs a bit of love there also. (Headlights/Fogs/Fans to 4/Wipers/Brake lights etc...)
It takes a bunch of tuning to get the MS to deal with that much draw at once. Staggering the fans to go off at a few degrees different temperatures should give idle enough time to stabilize and not dip down so low that it gets caught in an oscillation or flat out stall.
Are your 4 idle ve cells in the bottom left corner set at the same value? Did you go through the motions of the idle valve test when you first started running your new setup?
It takes a bunch of tuning to get the MS to deal with that much draw at once. Staggering the fans to go off at a few degrees different temperatures should give idle enough time to stabilize and not dip down so low that it gets caught in an oscillation or flat out stall.
Are your 4 idle ve cells in the bottom left corner set at the same value? Did you go through the motions of the idle valve test when you first started running your new setup?
Fans are staggered. Main fan comes on at 200 degrees and shuts off at 190 for now. Aux fan comes on at 205 and turns off at 200. Yes, I did idle valve test. What is your preferred method though in case I did it wrong or wasn't doing something I should have?
I have a hard time trusting this chassis anymore. This issue has nothing to do with the chassis, but I am fighting weirds stalling issues that have followed through two ECUs and two fan setups.
I could swap alternators, swap batteries... I am just tired.
I agree. I'm taking a couple weeks off on this (probably) but when I get back I am going to do my best to get to the bottom of this.
After replacing the oil feed line I am going to replace the alternator with a spare I have sitting around to reduce one possibility. From there, I will look for the common thread in all of these problems.
My symptoms:
Car runs rich when my car first starts up and then has to add fuel as I drive. This exhibits in VEAL as a map that goes red at the beginning but slowly fades. There is no warmup enrichment or IAT corrections as far as I know that is causing this.
When it gets hot, I see the EGO correction adding fuel.
When the car is first started up, sometimes it has a hard time staying running. If I hold the throttle to 1,500 rpm or so for 15 or so seconds it is ok.
When the car is settled after a cool start, I can turn the headlights on and see no stumble or stall.
When the car is hot or has been driving after it has reached about 160 degrees or so, turning the headlights on will cause the car to stall.
Anytime the main fan comes on, it will stall the car.
Sometimes when it is hot, I will turn the wheels of the car at parking lot speeds and not in gear and the car will stall.
Also of note - when cranking the car I am seeing loss of communication with serial. I cannot log trigger wheels when cranking.
I DO have a lightweight flywheel... But I doubt that is causing the car to die from headlights...
Also, my battery starts the car, but it did get discharged over the winter. I trickle charged it back to life. However, it does have a hard time starting once in awhile, usually after it has been sitting several days. (i'm pretty sure this problem pre-dates this battery but I cannot confirm)
I also have a log of my first startup after it died on me in traffic yesterday. I don't know if this is before or after I cut my oil supply to my turbo. I will upload it when I get home tonight. I wasn't in the mood to pull it last night.
Last edited by Chiburbian; 05-16-2017 at 03:26 PM.
Looks like in the 04-05 Mazdaspeed maps individual trims is turned of but it still has that funky data in them. It shares the same injector timing map. The 99-00 map shows a different trim but still odd, and has a completely different injector timing map.
Just because it comes in the basemap does not mean it should be turned on. Again, unless you have data, which you do not, that says, e.g. ini 4 only gives 92% of the called for fuel at whatever injector open injector time is called for at 200kPa and 7000RPM, then you should not be sending that injector 108% of the open time to compensate.
Basically, if you correctly tune that cell, using feedback from your WB02 sensor, then it is reading the average of the cylinders (assuming you have only 1 sensor). So it is reading the average of 1.07, 1.08, 1.00, and 1.04 or about 1.05. You will tune to that, and Cylinder 1 will be running about 5% lean, Cylinder 1 & 2 will be running 3% rich, and cylinder 4 will be about correct.
This should be turned off. There is nothing magical about your fuel rail, or injector position, to justify using this.
I wonder if you could start with one of @Braineack 's base maps, which are pretty good. Then reset your ReqFuel for the injectors you have, put in the factory ID data on dead time and Low Pulse Width, and proceed from there? I don't know how his MS3X I/O's compare with your PNP-PRO, or whatever MS you have (I don't recall). That is really why I was asking about what FW you were running.
Just because it comes in the basemap does not mean it should be turned on. Again, unless you have data, which you do not, that says, e.g. ini 4 only gives 92% of the called for fuel at whatever injector open injector time is called for at 200kPa and 7000RPM, then you should not be sending that injector 108% of the open time to compensate.
Basically, if you correctly tune that cell, using feedback from your WB02 sensor, then it is reading the average of the cylinders (assuming you have only 1 sensor). So it is reading the average of 1.07, 1.08, 1.00, and 1.04 or about 1.05. You will tune to that, and Cylinder 1 will be running about 5% lean, Cylinder 1 & 2 will be running 3% rich, and cylinder 4 will be about correct.
This should be turned off. There is nothing magical about your fuel rail, or injector position, to justify using this.
I wonder if you could start with one of @Braineack 's base maps, which are pretty good. Then reset your ReqFuel for the injectors you have, put in the factory ID data on dead time and Low Pulse Width, and proceed from there? I don't know how his MS3X I/O's compare with your PNP-PRO, or whatever MS you have (I don't recall). That is really why I was asking about what FW you were running.
It comes turned on by default. Unless I had a good reason to modify anything I left it as it came. Since I had no experience with adjusting injector trims or timing I left it. This motor/tune is just there to get me to my built motor. The timing map may be sub-optimal but allegedly it's safe. I am up for improvements. When the new motor is in and broken in, I will be doing a full dyno tune.
I would be happy to merge my specific settings into a Brain map. I will look for one.
In the meantime for datas sake, the logs from just after my oil line likely was severed and just prior to seeing smoke and pulling over.
On the A/C subject: It appears to me that there is no delay occuring even though you have one programmed in. I suggest (3) possible ways to diagnose the issue:
1) Eliminate bad (locked) compressor. Run the RPM's up to 2000 and turn on A/C. Does it stall the motor, or does it cool the car?
2) Re-set the delay to about 2 seconds and see if things change. I think they won't.
3) Disconnect the wire from the A/C clutch. Under this scenario, RPM's should climb from 800 to 1000 and hang there. If it does not, then your idle up is not really working. If it does, then this is more evidence that the clutch is coming on before the delay takes place.
So, What I think is happening is that the MS is not controlling the A/C clutch. Rather, when you push the A/C switch, the clutch is coming on immediately. Wiring error of some sort.
Another interesting thing on your logs. You have Fan set to come on with A/C, and a 200 RPM idle up. You have 200 RPM idle up on the A/C as well. I would therefore expect your idle target to jump from 800 to 1200, but yours only jumps to 1000? Maybe I'm missing something?
On the A/C subject: It appears to me that there is no delay occuring even though you have one programmed in. I suggest (3) possible ways to diagnose the issue:
1) Eliminate bad (locked) compressor. Run the RPM's up to 2000 and turn on A/C. Does it stall the motor, or does it cool the car?
2) Re-set the delay to about 2 seconds and see if things change. I think they won't.
3) Disconnect the wire from the A/C clutch. Under this scenario, RPM's should climb from 800 to 1000 and hang there. If it does not, then your idle up is not really working. If it does, then this is more evidence that the clutch is coming on before the delay takes place.
So, What I think is happening is that the MS is not controlling the A/C clutch. Rather, when you push the A/C switch, the clutch is coming on immediately. Wiring error of some sort.
Another interesting thing on your logs. You have Fan set to come on with A/C, and a 200 RPM idle up. You have 200 RPM idle up on the A/C as well. I would therefore expect your idle target to jump from 800 to 1200, but yours only jumps to 1000? Maybe I'm missing something?
At this point unless the compressor is locked permanently (which I doubt) I think we can eliminate that portion of the troubleshooting. I DO have to troubleshoot my A/C, but I haven't used A/C in well over a year and when I try and turn it on it doesn't get cold. I have a feeling that it needs to be recharged. I will check the pressure switch and bring it to a friend who has an A/C recharge machine to check once the oil line is fixed.
I wonder what port I should be logging to check to see in my logs if my fan turned on? Either way, they should turn on at 200 degrees so that should give you an idea on whether or not there is a delay.
But, do remember that this happens with just turning my headlights on when the car is warm. I can't remember if it stalls out completely or just stumbles badly honestly). It also happens when I turn the wheel at idle (load on PS) and sometimes when I get on the brakes, but I haven't had that problem in some time.
Either way, i'm all for removing possible issues in the troubleshooting process, but I haven't turned my A/C on in some time and I doubt it's charged.
My mis-understanding. I thought we were looking at A/C, but only fans. So the 200 RPM step makes sense. OK. Then same procedure #2 and #3, but fans, not A/C.
I do 't recall what control choices are available on the second fan.
EDIT: Oh, wait, you say that even your headlights cause stalling. I'm out of ideas. I defer to HHammerly who gave some advice above. My MS3 has hardware alternator control, so I have no experience with FW control set-up
Last edited by DNMakinson; 05-18-2017 at 11:17 AM.
05-11-2017, 09:36 AM
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