Faelflora breaks his promise to break no more parts. He breaks eddy brakes. - Page 178 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-23-2012, 01:22 PM   #3541
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I think he meant comparing what we pay for Abe and Tims stuff to a header shop or race shop bill for a custom header. And we still have people that bitch all the time about it being too expensive.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #3542
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cast inconel exhaust manifold
retarded opulence, i haz it

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Faelflora breaks his promise to break no more parts. He breaks eddy brakes.-20ts3_exhaust_manifold.jpg  
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:54 PM   #3543
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Just guesses here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post

There is a reason FM use only a log style manifold.
Corky designed it that way back in the mid 90's? Simple castings are cheap to develop & reproduce and are the obvious solution for anything involving quantity? The miata doesn't need any more power than a aerodyne 'small ball bearing' turbo? The person(s) who designed their newest casting were not the wisest choice for the job?
Quote:
There is also a reason they sell a downpipe brace.
Because incorrect stud material? Because weld quality and design issues? Because there's more margin in a simple bracket & pipe clamp than pretty much anything else?

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R&D
haha, or that. But when I think R&D, I think Trackspeed, not FM. Different target market & business model though.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:01 PM   #3544
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All these tubi manifolds cracking does kinda worry me though.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
But then I look at Dem, y8s, and the ABSURDcrew using and abusing their ETD/S4/and ABSURD mani's daily for long periods of time without a single hiccup.

And I'm back to being clueless on whether I should run a longtube on a daily or wussy out and get a log.

Ugh.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:02 PM   #3545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
There is also a reason they sell a downpipe brace.
Because they don't use a flexpipe before the cat.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:07 PM   #3546
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:07 PM   #3547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
All these tubi manifolds cracking does kinda worry me though.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
But then I look at Dem, y8s, and the ABSURDcrew using and abusing their ETD/S4/and ABSURD mani's daily for long periods of time without a single hiccup.

And I'm back to being clueless on whether I should run a longtube on a daily or wussy out and get a log.

Ugh.
honestly mine could have cracked and filled itself with carbon by now

also, I dont track the car.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:25 PM   #3548
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I checked out my absurdflow ramhorn last night and I can not find any cracks at all in it. Then again I do have a kick-*** crane on my setup.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #3549
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The ETD shorty that I picked up had a small crack on the wastegate arm that was caused from flanges not being flattened correctly and hot spots forming. Which makes sense considering the position of the wastegate arm and the weight hanging off it.

Here is a pic of the gusset:


The manifold itself is Sch.40 mild steel and is an absolute tank. It's rare to hear about ETD manifolds cracking, even the stainless, turbular manifolds.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:37 PM   #3550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
Not exactly true.

There is a reason FM use only a log style manifold. There is also a reason they sell a downpipe brace.

R&D
Wrong.

FM uses a log because "big power" in a miata used to be 250hp. You don't need a tubular for 250hp. If you are going for over 350hp though, a cast log manifold really becomes restrictive. I saw this on the dyno with my BEGI S5 log. Above 18psi, I was only getting 1-3 more hp per psi. That is miserable and the only thing causing that was my cast log manifold.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:42 PM   #3551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
All these tubi manifolds cracking does kinda worry me though.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.

Personally, I think my manifold and Soviet's manifold cracked because we were both running lots of retard. Me, because of 35psi, and him because he was running a SUPER SUPER SUPER "SAFE" timing map. Shrug

Also mine cracked because 60+lbs weight
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #3552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Wrong.

FM uses a log because "big power" in a miata used to be 250hp. You don't need a tubular for 250hp. If you are going for over 350hp though, a cast log manifold really becomes restrictive. I saw this on the dyno with my BEGI S5 log. Above 18psi, I was only getting 1-3 more hp per psi. That is miserable and the only thing causing that was my cast log manifold.

Wrong.

FM uses a log because they wanted to be backwards compatible to the BEGi kits they used to selll...


how would you know what really restrictive looks like? you've never dynoed over 250rwhp
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:45 PM   #3553
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heat doesnt help either, basic science may be the cause to your downfall of your manifold. I say reweld and crane the bitch. I know for a fact that my S4 knockoff glowed many times, but i have a diy brace that holds the turbo up by the oil drain flange bolts
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:49 PM   #3554
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Everyone:

I want to say that Abe/ARTech has been fantastic to work with. He has always been extremely responsive, and I think his work is top notch. His fab job on my turbo rig was EXTREMELY custom and required a LOT of work for fitament. Who else do you know that has fabbed a manifold for a miata with a S366, a 1/2" thick QSV, and a 3.5" downpipe? Again, other fabricators that saw his work were very impressed.

I know my dyno test was shizte numbers, but the design does perform very well, and obviously makes power at high boost and high RPM without causing a restriction. I would use him again for another build. He has also been extremely responsive for my crack issue.

The only reason why I posted this up here instead of keeping it private is to crowdsource a little bit and get some opinions on how to keep this from happening again. That said, this is just one more downfall/issue with running more HP than... stock. If I ever go LS I'm going to get a $20,000 800hp crate motor. And not turbo it.

FWIW, my BEGI S5 also cracked all over the place too. And yes, that is a log. It cracked at the "wastegate collector" part. Note that BEGI made FM's manifolds for many years. Horrible shizzty pathetic design, unless you only want 250hp.

Again, I strongly recommend ARTech.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:55 PM   #3555
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Not going to quote all of you.
I'm talking about reliability and not having issues like THIS. If you want something to last, and make what i would consider "plenty" or "enough" power out of a miata, a log style manifold (regardless of who makes it) is the way to go. Now i'm not saying they're better, and can make more power because they can't. I'm simply saying there is a reason FM uses the brace and the cast manifold. Reason being, they advertise their power outputs without fail and stand by it without issue.


Edit* Before people think i'm on FM's dick i'm not. I'm pissed they recommended restricting my exhaust to fix my boost creep problem. But that's another issue.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:58 PM   #3556
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Well if you managed to crack a cast log, then its gotta be a "Fae" issue then.

That makes me feel better. I did multiple 0-130 pulls in my miata with a begi log back to back before and not a thing was wrong with it.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:06 PM   #3557
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Not that i want to pop fae's or anyone's bubble, but didn't FM make like 420hp on their log manifold with a 3071?

I wonder who has the highest HP on a log.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:09 PM   #3558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
Not that i want to pop fae's or anyone's bubble, but didn't FM make like 420hp on their log manifold with a 3071?

I wonder who has the highest HP on a log.
Yeah but the car doesnt run faster than spec miata times.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:22 PM   #3559
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Dyno numbers is the name of this thread.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:23 PM   #3560
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its not about who makes it, but the design. A singular tube runner manifold relies on the turbo position, what i have, fae has, and others have is a bottom mounted turbo setup, so in turn with every heat expansion, and cool contraction the manifold goes through a lot of stretching carrying the turbo during these events. Eventually it will show signs of metal fatigue and no precision welding will prevent it, the only preventive measure when using a very heavy turbo is bracing and craning, to relieve weight off the manifold from turbo and downpipe sway. Yeah, types of steel and thicknesses will only put off the inevitable a few miles later, but it will happen if there isnt any weight relieved off the manifold.
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