The car is back on the road, it ******' rips, and I love it. Drove it to work today and took it for a little drive after work. Put a gap on a tuned golf R, so that's a good sign, and the dude was psyched. Brake boosting in 2nd and it side steps before getting traction and scooting out. Fun ****. 18-20psi on high boost and IAT's don't even move, very promising for the track. Low boost still holding a nice 12psi to red, so should be good to go for track duty. I had no issues down my dirt road or any of the driveways around town with the splitter, so that's a relief. I kinda had anxiety about that, to be honest. Took a quick jaunt to 125mph and car is stable, no noises from the splitter or anything like that. Actually, no new noises at all from the splitter, and TBH I expected some extra rattles or something so that's also a win.

Only a minor leak (more like a seep) from one of my AN fittings on the cooler. No coolant leaks. I did **** up the alignment replacing that inner tie rod, even though I did my best to measure and set it as close as possible, so I'm going to mess with that tomorrow. Just needs toe zero'd out so hoping I can get that done with a tape measure the old fashioned way. I do have an alignment appt but my alignment dude is out of town until AFTER the next event, so I'm gonna try and dial it in myself.

The car is a dude magnet. Kinda hilarious, I'm not a huge attention ***** kinda guy, but man this thing gets thumbs ups everywhere. Had 2 different dudes talk to me while filling it up on the way to work, another dude come chat me up at the car wash after lunch, and ran into another dude after work that followed me so that we could chat. I've owned this car long enough to tell you that the public perception has changed so much. An NA miata was absolutely not "cool: in 2005 when I got this thing, I got ragged on so hard for it. Now kids even like my stock NB, and go apeshit for this thing. I had a kid last year tell me it was his dream car. Anyways, just kinda cool, and funny to me.

I personally am thrilled with how the aero has come together, it's a much more complete package visually and I'm happy with it. Hopefully she holds together for another season! My buddy Serenio is gonna lend me his racing seat so I can try it out, as well as a 5pt racequip harness, so that's probably the next thing going into the car. Eyeballing those PCI mounts with slider right now. The car really needs a real seat and harnesses, asap.

 

Looking damn good dude! Glad the injury isn't keeping you from enjoying the car after all the recent improvements you just finished!

I don't know if I said it in your previous front aero post, but the front end on the car looks so professional. I love how the splitter and spats blend into each other.

Said it in Ricardo's thread too, but I'm amped to see you NM guys get into track season and abuse your cars again!

 

I was able to get on track this weekend, which was awesome. I ended up having some issues with the wastegate, which is one of the things I did NOT touch, so that actually is kind of a win in a way. All the recent modifications held up great with no issues.

Wastegate issue was the plunger, where it threads to the actuator rod, on this kingawa wastegate. It had backed its threads off and the wastegate fell open. I still passed a 1le camaro, ran a 1:31.8 on 2.5psi of boost, and got black flagged that session though! Black flagged for passing the corner, which is understandable, but he pointed me by and pulled wayyyyy outta the way to give me the racing line. We're friends and talked about it after, and I did exactly what he wanted, but rules are rules I suppose. Either way not a biggie they let me go back out without issue.

The car must have been running WAY rich, I kinda kept it pinned (I know @redursidae was shaking his head), it triggered the CEL and I wasn't datalogging, but I suspect it was hella rich which triggered the safety and I probably shouldn't have kept driving. But I did, and when i got back to the pits my catchcan had spewed - which is unusual. I drained it to find it filled with not oil, but ethanol, like 2-3 oz of it, which I've certainly never seen. I guess oil control rings don't stop ethanol from getting past the rings. I'm going to change my oil soon, it definitely smells of ethanol now as well.

Anyways, third session the car finally was working and I got to shake it down, with a high 1:29 pretty easy. Fourth session we tried Ricardos new map which includes boost control changes so I can run high boost (cooling system was more than holding up), so I ran that.


On high boost the CLT's didn't go over 185*, which is insane, as I'd easily see 220*+ before at the end of a session if I ran high boost. And IAT's didn't go over 84* (ambient was 75*), which again is insane, because on high boost I'd see 50*+ over ambient with the old setup (on a 90* day 145+ IAT's). If you have a keen eye check out the boost, CLT, and IAT values on my RasPi in that video. I'll have to dig through the logs later but the cooling stack was performing.

My driving wasn't anything to write home about, honestly kinda not happy about it, though it wasn't terrible. Just glad to be back out there driving, and my back held up pretty well. With the injury it's even more obvious how bad my seat support is and how much effort I'm exerting to keep my legs from sliding around. Fortunately my buddy lent me a seat and harness to try, and offered to sell them at a steal of a deal if they work for me, so I've got PCI brackets on order and by next track outing I should be properly secured in the car.

I'm also still not thrilled with the r12 pads. They never seem to come alive like I'd expect, and almost feel glazed. This is after a fresh bleed, lots of pedal effort, no wheels locking or stopping. Just meh. I've ordered some pfc-11's after being told they don't take heat to come alive and are great for T/A and autox.

 

Good stuff dude! That's a crazy delta between the temps with your old cooling setup vs new. Was the video in high boost mode? Car looks like a rocketship in the straights haha.

And hang on, you mean to say that all this time you've been driving with the factory seats? I never noticed that before but holy hell your legs and core must be strong I remember being sore from bracing myself with my knees at my first track day. Proper seat and harnesses will be a nice next upgrade.

Oh, and I'm glad to hear your back's holding up currently. You've been so active the last few weeks that I almost forgot it was still healing haha.

 

Haha thanks Zak. Yeah, high boost in the video, it's 16-18psi everywhere instead of 11-12ish that I usually run.

The temp deltas I'm most excited about, it means the recent work I did is holding up and should allow me to drive the car harder at higher power levels. Or more importantly for longer sessions if I choose. It's not like I need more power on track, the car has seconds to melt away still without any extra oomph if I can get more comfortable pushing braking zones. Though it is fun!

The seats are lotus elise seats, with stock belts. Definitely better than stock seats, but still no race seat. All my buddies have been telling me my seats are holding me back, Ricardo for one after giving him a ride (passenger seat is the same). I have a weird habit of bracing my knee against the door panel/trans tunnel to hold me in place. IDK man, I'm just some yahoo that likes to drive fast.

Anyways updates soon with the seat install! And some other goodies.

 

Man, I miss the feeling of a reasonably large turbo NA/NB at over 15 psi boost on track. Such a little rocketship.

 

Man, I know the Elise seats used to get a lot of love but I've never been that impressed with them any time I sat in one. They look like a great dual duty style of seat, but if you're moving around that much in them, clearly they aren't. Plus, even something as simple as wearing a belt put immense pressure on my lower back. The padding was horrendous in the one I sat in most recently. I don't think you'll find lap time necessarily by installing a race seat if you're confident as you drive it now, in my mind it's more about improving your consistency by letting you focus that much more on your line.

I know everyone seems to love the G-Loc pads, but I've seen as many people have issues with them as people that swear by them. They seem to be really picky about break in and temp window. I'm glad I'm slow enough to get away with a more pedestrian pad.

 

Indeed, many people love GLOCs and swear by them, ourselves included. We've never had problems with them. But nothing wrong with experimenting! Surprised you're not getting a lot of bite out of the R12's, those usually feel awesome. Probably some kind of bedding issue or otherwise as said above, they are indeed particular about those processes.

 

I know we discussed this a while back, but the G-Loc R12 seems to be the one pad several of us have had issues with. I didn't like them at all, went back to the R10 and I'm happy again...

 

I've got thoughts on the GLOC stuff, I suspect I messed up the break in trying to do it on the street with a few 80mph stops (I needed at least a partial brake in so they'd work safely on the street). They just never worked right. Then I drove them to the track (150 mi commute each way to the track) and tried them there. I followed break in there as well, it was something like braking early for the first few laps, which I did, maybe 8/10ths pace and much earlier braking. I remember smoking them pretty good and even putting some heat/discoloration into the rotors my first laps out, kinda fearful I fucked something up there. I read the instructions and tried to follow them, but they were honestly kinda complicated and assumed only track driving so I always figured I messed something up. They also wanted them to fully cool before going back out, which again wasn't really an option per say unless I sat out a session. My local buddy had the same issue and ditched them too (urging me to go pfc-11) which he loves.

Then I came across this post, which makes me wonder if my street driving to and from the track is eating off the transfer layer or something:


I always figured if I were doing longer sessions they'd eventually break in and get a nice transfer layer, or whatever, but 1 warmup lap, 3 hotlaps, and 1 cooldown format of Time Attack to me it seems like these pads are no good for. Maybe they just never get the heat in 'em to work. IDK. I figure I'll set them aside and try them again later when I do some longer sessions and HPDE's.

I re-bled the brakes and master again before last weekend, and once again, they just don't give me bite or confidence I expect. To the point where I wasn't sure if the car would stop coming into the hairpin on my second session trying to push the braking zone. No lock up either, just a very firm pedal and no bite even with lots of pressure.

I'll keep yall posted regarding the PFC's. I really hope they work out better for me. I honestly had more confidence on my old sport brakes and HP+ pads, despite the brake fade that would happen towards the end of a session. I just want powerful brakes I can trust! And the PFC-11's are on the way so I'll keep y'all posted! I just hope I haven't glazed or damaged my rotors at this point. They definitely look more shiny than blue/transfer layer like I'd expect.

 

When I tried the R12, I had the same issues... no bite, and wooden feel. Had to bury the pedal a few times to get them hot, and they would stop, but had no feel.

My bedding procedure is to do 65mph-10mph hard stops until I can smell the brakes and the pedal starts to soften, then take it home with minimal brake application, and let it cool down. I'm fortunate to have a suitable rural road on which to do so close to home. Doing near stops on an open track for bed-in has never seemed safe to me, and I've never had any issues with pads until the R12.

According to the G-Loc site, the R10 temp range is 118-1475*F. R12 is 173-1860*F. I find it hard to believe I wasn't getting them into the working range, but it's clear that the R12 wanted way more heat than the R10, and they never had equivalent feel.

 

I know I've said it before and I'm echoing here, but I did the a very similar bed in procedure to Roda with my R12's as well. Some light brake action on the way to the "break in" road, then as many hard accelerations/stops as I could until they started to smell, then cruise home with minimal brake application and wait 24 hours before using them again. I swear my R12's bit harder when cold. Like way harder. Right after I got my first set, I locked them up a few times on my first hot lap because I wasn't expecting the initial bite. Maybe that's just a testment on how sensitive they are to the bed-in process. Bronson's input seems to accentuate that point.

I was switching between GS1 pads for street and the R12's for track on my last car with the same rotors, but ended up running the R12's on the street between events more than once. Maybe the transfer layer from the GS1's affected how the R12's acted?

To my point, here's a vid of me locking up the brakes in T1 on my first hot lap of the day a couple years back. Rookie sh*t? Absolutely. But still, those pads bit hard while cold!

 

Hmm. Yeah I don't agree with Bronson on that. We always street drive to/from the track with GLOCs with no issue once they're bedded, never had them "wipe off" the transfer layer with street driving.

For bedding I do hard braking from increasing speeds. 40-10, 50-10, 60-10, 70-10 in quick succession. Usually by the time I do the 70-10 I've got a strong brake stink. Then I park the car and let it cool fully, ideally overnight. This procedure is pretty easy to do even on the street as long as you can find an empty street close to home.

if you decide to try GLOCs again, maybe just go to R16 or R18? But i've really liked the R12's I've driven.

 

Now, I'm going to flip the script and and come to the G-Locs defense.

Are those of you having issues with the G-Loc pads at the R12 compound sure you need it, and moved to it after having had issues with the R10 pad not holding up? I have a track day buddy that just about melted down his RSX's braking system with cracked rotors and bending the backing plates on the supposedly almost identical Carbotech XP10 compound before moving to XP12s. He noticed some loss of feel when the pads were failing, but nothing that made him want to pit, it never failed to slow him down.

Fireindc, I know you're at a higher altitude where cooling will be more difficult, but an 11.75x1.25 Superlite BBK and brake cooling ducts seems like a lot of brake cooling capacity for the amount of power a 5 speed transmission can reliably handle, as I think I remember you saying your goal was. I'm curious, but not curious enough to go back and read every detail of the thread haha.

 

I like this discussion. Short answer is "no", I jumped from sport brakes with hawk HP+ (great feel, but scary fade when pushing hard even in time attack format) to this big 'ole brake kit. I almost went for the smaller kit, but decided to future proof the car with the intent of doing more and more track stuff, with HPR (high plains raceway) being relatively close that was one of the tracks I have in mind. At my power level I'll likely be basically topping out the gearing at that track, lots of speed and heat, so it's been a bit of a goal for the car to be able to go do longer sessions over there.

I know I'm not a track driving pro, lots of room for improvement there, especially in braking zones, line choice, consistency. I've always had good car control from years and years of sliding around in the snow, wet, and generally being a jackass but the track stuff I started in 2019 - mostly time attack but with the goal to get the car sorted for longer HPDE sessions and the like. This brake kit, and that pad selection, are absolutely overkill for anything I've done up until this point.

I'm going to be setting my r12's aside, hoping the pfc-11 fix my current braking shortcomings, and plan to pull them back out and try them again once I get to doing some longer format track events. The pads are basically brand new. And again, maybe I broke them in wrong. I kept hoping they'd break in but this is the fourth or fifth track event on them and I'm still not happy with 'em.

As for the car, on high boost it made 315whp corrected before the car ran out of air. We're at high altitude (5,000 ft where dynod) so call it 285whp actual? Not sure, don't really care, max'd out the gt2860rs and it has no more air on e85. So whatever that honestly makes. The 5 speed has held up due to mechanical empathy and a reasonably slow spooling/transitioning turbo, I think. It's an NB 5 speed, I've heard they might be stronger, who knows. The car definitely makes some jam, easily walking c5z06's, tesla model 3 performance, 5.0 mustangs with bolt-ons, scat packs, etc. Whatever power it makes, it's beyond my skill level to fully utilize on track still and I'm working up to that still. A 6 speed is OTW, and eventually I'd like to move to a GTX series turbo for better response/spool/transition but for now I think the turbo is helping me out.

TLDR: Goals are 300+whp track capable weapon that I can drive to work occasionally.

 

The short answer is no, I'm not sure I needed R12s. K swapped NA at 215rwhp, 11.75 V8R fronts, sport rears with Wilwood calipers. The R10s (R8 in the rear) were fantastic with the BP at 135hp, but I thought I'd need more pad when I K swapped the car. Tried R12/R10, didn't like them and switched back to R10/R8. Feel/bite is much improved, and I have yet to fade them out in time attack formats or HPDE sessions.

I didn't think the R12s would be that much of a jump, but my experience is that they need a LOT more heat to work properly than R10.

ETA: I switch back and forth with G-Loc GS1 for AutoX, or if I'm driving the car to C&C or a car show. Have never had any problems from switching back and forth, without rebedding.

 

I'm running PFC 11's up front on the SM/AFCO kit and 97's in the rear. Brakes feel great to me and PFC are my personal favorite. I've run Hawks on my Honda, HP+, DTC30, DTC60's and finally PFCs (I can't remember which number) and I think the PFCs have a little better modulation and don't have corrosive brake dust (supposedly). I've said this before but I'll repeat it. When I was tracking more frequently, I had friends that had issues with Carbotechs that I just stayed away and never bothered to be honest. The Hawks and PFCs, I generally just slap them on the car, give them a few good stops, and they're good to go. Having a finicky break in procedure is a pita since I swap between street/track pads at times. I'm certainly not bad mouthing Carbotechs, just throwing in my 2 cents.

That thing must rip at ~300whp! I'm still on baby boost that creeps to ~9 psi.

 

Agreed with Nate, great discourse going on here. Lots of good info from peeps with all kinds of different setups!

To add some more info to the bucket, I dropped down from R12/R10 to R10/R10 on my NA. Was hoping I could get away with a less aggressive pad up front since the R12's seemed tough on rotors. I was able to get the R10's to fade at 270whp after 4-5 laps at most tracks. SM/Wilwood 11.75" front brake kit with 3" ducts. The R10's had much better manners for me when cold, though, and didn't squeak too badly when being driven on the street.

I'm actually really happy with the DTC-60's I'm running on track front and rear right now. Haven't got them to fade at 185whp (guess that's really not too much of a load), no discernable change in manners from cold to hot, and they're mostly squeak-free on the street! Have heard some people say they're like an on/off switch, but I replaced the car's 7/8" OEM master cylinder w/ a 1" unit, so maybe that's offsetting any oversensitivity they exhibit.

 

After trying PFCs I quit looking. No bedding required and fantastic modulation, no fade, no corrosion, and no noise.

 

I appreciate everyone's input here. Excited to try out the PFC's and report back! My local track buddy has been urging me to switch after he had the same issues and LOVES the PFC-11, so I have faith this will make me happy.

Got the car aligned today. I had replaced the front inner tie rod and had to DIY the toe back in for last track day. Looks like I got it within .03 so I'm PSYCHED with that (wheel was off center, I was just using measuring tapes and ghetto methods on my dirt floor to get it ready for the track).

Now, how TF did the right rear toe get so messed up (without messing up the camber?). That's a mystery to me. But the car feels SO MUCH BETTER now just driving it around, it turns in way more quickly. I just checked the suspension and nothing is loose, so I gotta assume something slipped there.

I woulda liked more caster, but he said it was max'd out, so I'll live with what I got. Also I asked for .12 TOTAL rear toe and he did .12 each side. It's actually way less than I was running, so **** it, we'll see how I like it. Somehow my last alignment ended up with .51 total toe so this is less than half of that. I realize when I tell them 1/8" total toe they can't do the math to what the machine displays.

This guy isn't a miata specialist, mine are the only ones he's touched. lol. He's a sharp kid and into performance cars, and the only one locally that will do a custom alignment though, so we're working through it. Each one gets better.