Steve Dallas

Methinks this thread needs a new title in honor of compression being overrated.

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Guy pays full price for deflated miata.

psreynol

This certified instructor thing is interesting. I wonder if it will be adopted by clubs and if any benefits will offered in the way of liability coverage. for most clubs instructors are not paid and therefor not professionals but that does not mean a student cant sue if something happens. I think it would be a tough argument to win but that doesn't mean you wont need representation. for a modest fee it might be worth gaining certification but it seems they are not quite there yet. this gets me thinking about perhaps filming my students for my own protection with a go pro (actually I would like one but posting my awesome laps in not a super high priority. On one hand they might not be comfortable, concerned the instructor might put video on you tube, but on the other hand, you might get a crazy someday. never had a student not comply with my instruction but I certainly hear stories. what do you guys think? if AIM smarty cam with a solo was under a grand I might do it. I could send the students the data, and they could compare my Sunday drive to their noob mess if they want.

codrus

Build motor, add trubo, make much boost.

--Ian

Steve Dallas

I don't have a strong opinion on the certification. Having been in the IT field for 20+ years, I generally view certifications as money sucking treadmills, and the cynic in me thinks the MSF is just exploiting a few accidents to create some high paying careers for a select few somebodys. One open question is what continuing education will look like, and how much it will cost to keep the certification.

Having said that, the opportunity presented itself to get ahead of the curve and be one of the early certified instructors, so I took it on the hopes that it will open doors for me in the future, such as making expensive track days affordable. CoTA, for example, costs around $1200 for a track weekend. Instructors are invited for $100, and I can now instruct with almost any organization at almost any track. It should greatly broaden my horizons.

The process was expensive and grueling. They don't give it away. I think it cost me about $1800 all-in for the weekend, plus consumables. Keep in mind that everyone else paid that much, too, and this particular BMW CCA chapter passed only 40% of the candidates this time, so there is no guaranteed return on your investment.

As for what MSF certification does for us in terms of indemnity and liability, it is hard to say. We are at the mercy of the organization's insurance and legal representation in any case, with or without the certification. Requiring the certification probably lowers the organization's premiums and makes it look like they take safety seriously for what that's worth, which probably isn't worth much to instructors. Filming is probably not a bad idea, if you can get the student to agree. The logistics of doing it seem dodgy, considering the time allowed to switch students. Visions of fumbling with batteries and SD cards and mounts plague my thoughts. Most of my students are already filming, which is why I never do or say anything that could open me up to liability.

Many clubs will adopt it. Some chapters of BMW CCA already have, and they are in the process of grandfathering their existing instructors and requiring their new instructors to get it. I have heard rumblings that PCA is working on the logistics of adopting it. The HPDE school where I normally instruct has no official position on it, although I was encouraged to take this opportunity by the CDI. The biggest HPDE school in this area also has no official position yet. Neither of these schools is associated with a car club.



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Steve Dallas

Someday!

I'm kinda sorta out of track car $$ right now, considering recent work done on the Miata and RX-8, that very expensive instructor training last weekend, and considering I am in the process of building my wife her dream house (with an air conditioned 4 car garage for me to not be able to afford to work in).

The current question is the condition of the bearings. If the rings are worn due to low oil pressure, as I suspect, the bearings may also be in sad shape. If so, I obviously have to do something sooner rather than later, or just mothball the car for a year or so. I'll be taking an oil sample today or tomorrow to send to Blackstone. The last one was perfect. I wonder if that has changed?

Hmmm... Should I have my RX-8 compression tested to find out it has also asploded to double my misery?

Exit question: normal or low compression build for boost or high compression build to stay N/A?

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Steve Dallas

Boost all the crankcase pressures!

I like it.

Steve Dallas

Talk me out of doing a thing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Sol...ZZg5Bh&vxp=mtr

z31maniac

I'm sure it will be super cheap and easy to integrate into the Miata chassis.

Certainly cheaper than buying a healthy, used NA engine and slapping it in the car.

You should definitely do this for glory of dear great leader.

Steve Dallas

There is a precedent. And a kit. 200 whorespower and 200 ft-lbs N/A. No cooling issues. No heat management issues. No reliability issues. Lighter than a N/A BP engine. Passes emissions. It's like the poor man's K24 swap.

https://www.ecotecmiata.ca/

Options I am currently weighing with very rough costs:

1. JDM Miata engine or basic block rebuild plus F/I of some variety - $1500 plus ~$4000 - 5000
2. KMiata swap - $1500 plus $5000
3. Ecotec swap - $1100 plus $3000

Those estimates do not include shipping nor other misc. things that always come up nor tuning. They also do not take into account the fact that any used engine I buy will get all new seals, gaskets, belts, and other rubber bits. The swap kits are the base models with ECU, harness, etc.

Chilicharger665

iTrader: (2)

Vteckiller2000 did it and didn't like it, but his was a street car. The price, weight, and torque/HP advantages would be great in a track car.

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Why would you spend 1500 on a used motor if you're going to build it?

Buy a used block, swap it, and run it while you build your current block. A good block should run you like 400-600 MAX.

Steve Dallas

I have barely scratched the surface on this idea and have a lot of research to do before making any decision. "Didn't like it" requires a lot of context. I have a lot of reading to do. It may actually suck on the track for my purposes, considering how much low end torque it produces. Many will shudder, but the Miata I have liked best on the track had a Brotrex. :\

Who said anything about a built engine? My goal has always been a reliable low boost build for track use. No built engine needed.

With a JDM engine you get low miles, a flat top IM, 10.5 compression, a 2nd VVT head, and a warranty . That's a lot for a ceiling of $1500, and a great foundation to stay n/a or install a low boost Brotrex. To put that into further context, a standard rebuilt block costs $1500. The parts alone look to cost at least $1000. No way I'm rolling the dice on a used block, considering the labor involved. I like to wrench, but I like to drive a hell of a lot more.

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concealer404

iTrader: (3)

I think he mainly didn't like it because the fit and finish of the kit was atrocious, and it kept sheering off flywheel adapter bolts. Which isn't exactly an uncommon thing.

Also: your motor is fine. All four of your rings wouldn't just be happening to fail exactly the same. There's a lot of variance between testers. The fact that your numbers are so consistent are what's most important.

codrus

Did you ever do the leakdown test?

--Ian

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Rods for low bewst track reliability, no? You could legitimately just do a rebuild using a stock rebuilt kit by DNJ or whomever and put in ebay rods with ARP bolts for like 300 bucks. No more worrying about the rods coming out to say hello with the goals you had in mind. Your point is well taken.

You left out the part about 'mad tyte jdm bro' pro to the low miles motor as well!

I was thinking this as well, but didn't want to speak out of turn earlier.

Steve Dallas

That first part is disconcerting, but the kind of info I obviously need. I'll read up.

The uniformity is great, but the result has now been confirmed with 3 different testers with 3 different pressure gauges. Hot dry compression averages ~150 straight across. Is it not possible for compression to be uniformly low on an engine that either started life with over-bored pistons due to QC issues OR loss of oil pressure across all pistons for a sustained period of time? One of those seems to be the case with this engine at this point. I'd be happy to be wrong. Also remember the hot wet test is ~180 straight across, which points to ring and/or cylinder wall wear. Finally, it shows signs of high crankcase pressure, including burning oil and rapidly filling the catch can. Between burning oil and the catch can, I lose about 1 qt per track day. For context, my RX-8 burns 1/2 qt per track day, and it burns oil by design.

Yes, but only only cylinder 1. The result was close to 20%, which is what I expected to see, so I didn't bother to do the others.

I have a track day Saturday. The plan is to take the Miata and drop it at MER, which is a track-side shop that specializes in Mazdas, to let them have a look and confirm. I'm instructing, so I'll have plenty to keep me busy without driving.

VVT engines come with forged rods. No need to upgrade for low boost. If I tear it down, I need a full OE seal and gasket set, along with rings, bearings, studs, belts, possibly oil and water pumps, fluids, assembly lube, break-in oil, and all the rest. That is quite a bit more than $300. Also, I don't do eBay parts ever (OK, maybe an intercooler)--especially not on a track car.

I truly hope you optimistic guys are right, so I can get on with whatever boost. I'll have that 4th opinion by Saturday afternoon.

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dcamp2

iTrader: (4)

Easy button:
90 - 05 Treasure Coast Miata Fully Rebuilt Short Block Engine Assembly

Swap blocks, rebuild your current one for boost. Minimal down time.

Steve Dallas

Right, but for around the same price of that block plus shipping, I can buy a JDM engine locally, re-seal and install. Then, I have 2 of everything.

dcamp2

iTrader: (4)

You can also buy rebuilt heads from them as well. For me- it would be worth the extra $500-1000 to pay a shop that only does Miata stuff to rebuild a motor rather than gamble on a used engine and spend probably the same amount of money and more time on gaskets, tools, machine shop etc.

But I valued no downtime on my car. You have 2? track cars.