aidandj

iTrader: (5)

You mostly cant let it flap around. Also my wastegate only contacts the turbine blade nut, not the blades themselves

Just need to make a fancy wastegate actuator.

Steve Dallas

Obviously, I have a lot of research ahead of me, before I make any concrete decisions, and I have plenty of time to do it.

I have been looking hard at the TSE kit, due to its reported reliability and the general awesomeness that is the EFR. I know myself pretty well, and if I have to do that much work every year to get a sticker, I know I will absolutely hate doing it. It is hard enough to get me to swap my factory cat back on the RX-8 every April. Full disassembly of the turbo setup... Ugh! This has me looking for the Easy Button.

For that amount of work, I could just buy an MK Turbo setup and replace it every year.

I haven't ruled out FM. The ONLY reliable turbo track cars in my area sport newer FM hardware. (I have not encountered any TSE setups yet.) The spool time of the Garretts doesn't really bother me, since I will always be above 4K RPM on the track anyway, and that is the primary focus of the car. Quick spool-up on the street definitely wouldn't suck, though. It's good to know wiring the wastegate open and swapping in the OEM ECU might work without changing the injectors.

Hey look! A fancy Easy Button!

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

WWJBS


(What would jeff bucc say?)

Steve Dallas

As long as it is cut to length, fine sanded, media blasted, and powder coated, I think he'd be fine with it.

tyhackman15

If you ever have plans (or would like to) drive Harris Hill down in San Marcos, you're welcome to drive my '95 FM2 miata in addition to bringing your car. I can get you guest access for a day if needed. Great build thread btw, excited to see some FI fun.

Girz0r

iTrader: (1)

I still need to check out HHR

codrus

The spool up on the Garrett turbos isn't bad -- it's miles better than an ebay chinese knockoff turbo. It's just that EFR is really taking it to another level.

--Ian

18psi

iTrader: (76)

I don't know what the final costs are of each kit, but just make sure you really price them out, and unless FM is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the TSE, then it's not even a contest. I'd get tse over fm even if it was up to 500 more, just based on the design/engineering alone.

codrus

The big difference is that the FM kit is a complete kit -- turbo, manifold, downpipe, heat shield, intercooler, intercooler plumbing, airbox, all on the shelf ready to ship. AFAIK TSE hasn't gotten to that stage yet.

--Ian

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Yep, that's definitely true. I guess what I meant was: price out the cost of similar parts, or price out the cost of a "would be finished" TSE kit to a complete FM kit. If that makes sense.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

TSE has all of that except the intercooler and intake bits, neither of which are particularly difficult.... but definitely still something to consider.

For me, it'd be no contest at all.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

It's like comparing an ND with missing wheels to an NA

Steve Dallas

Harris Hill is definitely on my to do list. I went to college in Waco and took some classes in San Marcos, so I am familiar with the area. Actually, I lived in Cedar Park for nearly 10 years. I may just take you up on that. Likewise, I can offer you guest access to up to six 30 minute sessions at MSR any time you want to make it up this way.

Sounds like a party!

Right. In a good / better / best ranking system, Garrett is better, and EFR is best. No reason not to be looking at the best, if it is feasible, but there is not much wrong with better. No sense in letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

There are a lot of inputs to this equation.

Funny, when I made the decision to buy a Miata, everything seemed so simple!

.

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

When I bought the miata... I thought I wasn't going to do much to it. Then I found this site and gave in to car friends...

Steve Dallas

I took the Tramp to the track last Saturday and brutalized her. My son drove her for 5 session in the novice class, a friend drove her for 3 sessions in the advanced class, and I drove her for 3.3 sessions in the instructor class. I would have driven 4 sessions, but I was black flagged for dive bombing a Track Dog Rotrex Miata in the corners that wouldn't let me pass. While I was being yelled at by the pit master, I saw my CEL come on, so I quit that one after only 3 hot laps. The CEL turned out to be some emissions BS or other, and it cleared on the drive home. I'll grab the code and address whatever it is later. The point is, the car had a very hard day with no failures of any severity. Tires are still good. Brakes are fine. There is no drama with this car. I think I'm in love.

There is a confession I need to make. I visited Track Dog a few weeks ago to discuss going to the dark side. The $900 in sales tax I would have to pay for one of their Rotrex kits gave me pause. Out-driving one of their cars on the track sealed the decision. I will go toward the light, err... stay on the light side. Glad I got that off my chest. I feel better already.

[Honestly, I can't imagine that car was totally healthy. His priorities were the opposite of mine, however. I did reliability (just don't mention that coolant re-route!) and grip first. He did "power". I killed him so badly in the corners, that his power was not enough to overcome. Still...]

One thing that has me slightly annoyed is, I can't seem to lay down any solid baseline lap times. The car is slow enough, that I have a hard time getting a clean lap without being passed (or occasionally having to pass). I'm taking her out again tomorrow morning to run the 1.7 mile track in the clockwise direction. The plan is to get there very early, in hopes that most people will be in church. I run very close to spec Miata record times in my RX-8. I'd love to know what this Miata can do, now that I have more or less figured out how to drive her.

Virtually none of the turbo decisions have been made. The plan is to begin collecting parts and install the turbo this winter. I have a lot of driver mods still to make between now and then. The only solid decision is to figure out which Megasquirt to get and start learning to tune well in advance of installing the turbo. That might even net me a few ponies in the meantime.

codrus

$900 in sales tax? Google says sales tax in Texas is 6.25% -- it's a $14,400 rotrex kit?

--Ian

Steve Dallas

That's the state rate. Counties and cities are free to tack on their own. Dallas County and the City of Dallas gleefully participate in that idea.

But... Now that I calculate it myself, Gary quoted me double. OK. You talked me into it. Rotrex it is!

Chilicharger665

iTrader: (2)

What price did Gary quote you in the first place? I have been there several times and been driven in multiples versions of the Rotrex car when it was under development, but I haven't been there since it was completed. Also, are you going to go with his mirror-image oil cooler too?

Steve Dallas

The actual quote is on my desk at work, so I don't have the exact information in front of me. It was a comprehensive parts-only quote. It included the Rotrex kit ($4900), minus the fuel and timing cards, plus a Racing Beat header with wideband bung installation, the wideband itself, a high flow catted 2.5" midpipe, the oil cooler and brackets (I already have the Mocal sandwich plate, fittings, and hoses), a MS PNP, and some other stuff I asked about. I was exploring the Rotrex idea, since it seems like it could be the perfect, reliable on-track solution. The total cost was high enough, that virtually any turbo setup is in the cards. And, the sales tax mistake (my fault for not verifying) really caused my eyes to bug out.

Don't get me wrong here. Gary is a great guy, and by all verified accounts, he makes and sells solid products. I kind of want to assume the Rotrex Miata I went up against last weekend had something going on with it. OTOH, we do say that performance driving is 80% skill, 15% grip, and 5% power. He may have had the power (above 4K RPM!), but I had the grip and maybe a sliver more skill? It's possible.

.

Steve Dallas

Race track irony: