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Old 11-04-2014, 07:43 PM   #1441
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haha on the flip side though, it doesn't appear to actually be a VVT issue as much as a wiring issue of some sort.

Anyways, the car is as ready as it will be for boost. Drove it home after work after making adjustments and it drives pretty much as smooth and seamless as on the OEM ecu.

Couple small things:

-There is hot re-start leanness due to heatsoak. Not AIT heatsoak either, at least it doesnt appear that way. Still runs fine though, and as soon as you start moving it goes away. If you don't re-start the car, it won't even do it, I can idle in traffic for hours and it will be perfect.

-My AE/EAE or fuel overrun cut needs some tweaking. When I let off the throttle, it will pull fuel as its supposed to, go full lean, then a split second later dip all the way to like 10-12AFR, then a split second later go back to full lean. Almost like it changes its mind about cutting fuel, then changes its mind again. Can't really understand what it could be.

-Cold starts, and well , startup in general still needs work. Its not bad, but its nowhere near as good as OEM. At best I have to crank it 3-4 cranks for it to start, and sometimes it will do 4-5 and even shake a bit before firing. Not sure if lean or rich, still experimenting with that.
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:09 PM   #1442
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Vlad,

Great thread. I've got my MS2e and AEM ready to install this week... been searching low and high to arm myself with all the info I can find before unplugging the factory ECU.

A few questions for ya?
Where do you have your IAT installed right now? I've been considering using the end of my cone air filter for installation, since I'll always be n/a, to help prevent heatsoak.
Also, I assume you tapped into the ECU for power/ground for the AEM. Did you also splice in the AEM Analog Output (white) wire into the ECU's harness for the O2?
And finally, speaking of O2s.... I also ran across these calibration numbers for the older 30-4100 sensor.

0.00v for 10.0
4.99v for 19.98

Not sure if they'll help or not, but hey, another set of numbers to try, right?
Looking forward to your continued journey!
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:17 PM   #1443
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Sure thing:

It's in the airbox. Just shoved it into the snorkel and its right under the filter element. Again though, I don't think its the AIT that's getting heatsoaked. It was reading 100*, which is fairly common from what I observed, and other times that reading was observed car was running fine. In fact, I sat in bumper to bumper traffic yesterday for a long time and car idled perfect the whole time.

correct, all 3 wires from the AEM are connected to the MS3.

I've come to the conclusion that no "set" numbers are gonna work for me this time. I don't really know if it's because different builders or different MS3 boards or what, but the last two megasquirts all worked well with the AEM with the pre-set AEM drop down values, and this one just.....doesn't

I adjusted the numbers until it did, and so now its all good. I'll post them when I grab them later.
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:28 PM   #1444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
haha on the flip side though, it doesn't appear to actually be a VVT issue as much as a wiring issue of some sort.

Anyways, the car is as ready as it will be for boost. Drove it home after work after making adjustments and it drives pretty much as smooth and seamless as on the OEM ecu.

Couple small things:

-My AE/EAE or fuel overrun cut needs some tweaking. When I let off the throttle, it will pull fuel as its supposed to, go full lean, then a split second later dip all the way to like 10-12AFR, then a split second later go back to full lean. Almost like it changes its mind about cutting fuel, then changes its mind again. Can't really understand what it could be.
Some of discussed this sometime back. I have concluded that it really is a basic tuning issue. The more I have tuned the low kPa in the 15-25 over-run range, the better this has become. We have hills here, so I can prevent fuel cut with just a little bit of opened throttle, and spend enough time in sustained over-run to have VEAL actually tune those cells over the full RPM range. I still sometimes get a little variation, but not the wild swings.

Another possibility is that I have programmed in my best guess at low pulse width non-linearity for my yellow tops, but I don't think that is the improvement, and I suspect you have the ID curves programmed in already. So I'm sticking with the first story.

Finally, I did not comment on the hot restart and injector coil heat soak, because that has been discussed at length. I will have some real A-B data when I go to the return system, something you likely don't want to do with your goal of easy reversion to stock. (How's that for a non-comment comment).
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:37 PM   #1445
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Thanks for your input.

-When you say "tuned 15-25 over run range" what do you mean? Do you think it's too rich, so that AE pulls fuel, then gets to those cells and they are too rich, dumps a bit of fuel back in, and then overrun takes over? Cause that kinda sorta would make sense. I'll have to double check my bottom 2 rows, they are largely estimates since I have VEAL set up to not touch them (see our discussion about overrun/veal not playing well together in the lower rows)

-My ID's are not in the car. The car is running the stock 265cc (iirc) ev6 "purple" injectors.

-Yeah I was kinda hinting that this is the problem, since I see no other reason why the car would have the lean hot re-start. It's really not a huge problem, I'll address it later since it's not really high on the priority list
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:07 PM   #1446
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Yes, I mean those kPa's. I think VEAL has trouble down there because it is hard to be there and be steady state. But, with long downhills, I'm able to get steady state, or nearly so. IIRC, I set up a specific tuning session and just concentrated on that area.

I think it seems like the rich peg occurs after fuel cut, but that it is actually a delay in the WBO2 reading because there is so little flow (we did just close the throttle, after all).

Now you're making me doubt myself. Maybe tuning EAE is what fixed it by pulling fuel on decell. I will run tomorrow with no EAE and log. Then also with no low pulse correction. Will report back.

AE is not going to adjust fuel according to AFR readings. Do you mean EGO?

Right, I forgot you were still on stock inj.

*RESULTS*
1) With EAE off, and Inj Small Pulse Width (ISPW) OFF, I did not get any Lean-Rich-Lean action as I went into fuel cut.
2) Added EAE back, and still good
3) Added ISPW back, and at some places, like 2500 RPM, I could get some swing. I verified this as a rich spot. To fix, I actually reduced some of the ISPW compensation, and it is much improved.
4) Then added back the EAE. No real changes in if it went to L-R-L, but did almost always, upon throttle lift, AFR's move from whereever they are to off scale lean as Fuel Cut engages.

Sometimes I got some R-L-R swing, but only to 14 AFR, not the big swings to 10, like you mentioned, and I started with.

If you don't want to use VEAL, just log some slow downs from high RPM to LOW with the throttle cracked, so that you are running close to 20 kPa. That will give you a log from which you can tune those cells.

If anything, make them lean, because the only time you are there is when you are either going into fuel cut, or if you put clutch in, going to idle. Not making power, absorbing it. You just don't want to have a hesitation.

Last edited by DNMakinson; 11-05-2014 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Added Results of Testing
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:54 AM   #1447
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Very interesting info, and thanks a bunch for following up and confirming.

I am looking over the VE map now, and it's scaled smoothed pretty good, there is not a single cell in the lower row (10kpa and 26kpa) that is higher than the next higher row (35kpa and 50kpa). So I'm not really sure that's my problem, but perhaps I need to drop the bottom rows even more? problem is, when I do that, some times when I'm actually hovering in those cells at very low throttle the car runs quite lean.

I thought for sure it was my AE, since in MS3 it adds and takes away based on throttle tip in and throttle lift. But now you got me back to square one, with your experiment. hmm
Oh and it doens't always dip all the way to 10, sometimes to 12-13, but you get the idea.

I don't think I messed with ISPW at all. I'll have to take a look at that now.

And lastly, yeah, I'll definitely have to replicate and log the event thoroughly, if at least to post it up so maybe you folks can see if I'm missing something.

I'm slowly working on cold start, I think this morning was better than yesterday, so I think I'm making progress on that front ending up adding about 5% to crank PW every morning. Also having to add ASE since it wants to spilke lean a little bit after crank but before WUE. Car drove really well otherwise.

I'm so happy that the issues I'm having are just these tiny ones I am totally okay if these are my only issues

*edit: So far so good on the VVT issue too. I've added it as one of the gauges on TS so I can constantly make sure it's hitting VVT targets.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:35 PM   #1448
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Well well well, look what the mailman dropped off today



Pretty much a brand new turbo at this point.

So now the only thing I'm waiting for is Flyin Miata to ship me their turbo inlet and silicone lower rad hose. Decided to go with their inlet vs piecing together my own. Just seems easier this way, and total comes out within 30 bux

If anyone has either or both of these parts for sale, speak up
Attached Thumbnails
H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G-cam00913-1.jpg   H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G-cam00914-1.jpg   H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G-cam00915-1.jpg   H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G-cam00916-1.jpg  
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:39 AM   #1449
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Vlad, you crack me up.

Nice trubo
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:28 AM   #1450
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How much was the balancing if you don't mind me asking?

I'm just curious...like a cat. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:55 AM   #1451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Vlad, you crack me up.

Nice trubo
I can never "just" rebuild one of these. My OCD'ness won't let me.
Quote:
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How much was the balancing if you don't mind me asking?

I'm just curious...like a cat. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.
Its $65 if there is nothing wrong with it and it's not damaged. And they ship it back via UPS only, which is like 17 or something, so total comes to around 83ish

I like doing business with them. Real nice guys, helpful and friendly on the phone, do a great job each time (I've used then numerous times). They're a small business and each invoice/receipt is hand signed saying "thank you for your business" or something like that.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:11 AM   #1452
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Quote:
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Pretty much a brand new turbo at this point.
I am not a turbo expert, I just play one on web forums, but you seem to be missing a critical turbo piece in that picture. Where is the CHRA at?
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:17 AM   #1453
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hahaha not pictured cause I'm working on it

***edit:
Here you go


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H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G-cam00918-1.jpg   H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G-cam00917-1.jpg  

Last edited by 18psi; 11-07-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:39 AM   #1454
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I'm pretty much down to things to iron out with the tune:

- the cold starts
They are OK. Not bad, not rough anymore, but still not perfect. It takes a bit too many turns to fire up for my liking. Still trying to figure that one out, cause I don't think adding any more cranking pw's is helping. I've also fiddled with the spark map in those cells, which didn't seem to help too much. One other thing I'll be verifying is the idle valve position while cranking - I had it tuned decent, but that was on the previous ms3 so maybe it needs a bit of adjustment.

- the silly little rich dip on throttle lift
I am fairly confident it is related to AE or EAE, because yesterday I was keeping an eye on the "accel enrichments" gauge when it does that, and it spikes to like full enrich for a SPLIT SECOND right before it does that dip. I have looked over my AE settings and simply cannot figure out what is causing it to do that. Sorry, still no log, will get one for sure today.

Other than that, really happy with the way the car is running, and with this MS3.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:44 AM   #1455
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You wouldn't have these issues if you had alpha omega. In fact you'd probably have a 12-14% easier time tuning and tech support that's there 50%, 10% of the time!
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:58 AM   #1456
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Old 11-10-2014, 01:39 PM   #1457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder View Post
You wouldn't have these issues if you had alpha omega. In fact you'd probably have a 12-14% easier time tuning and tech support that's there 50%, 10% of the time!
Bahahaha


So when are we going to see some vids of this thing in action?
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Old 11-10-2014, 01:51 PM   #1458
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As soon as FM's silicone lower rad hose is not backordered.

Or I find one for sale elsewhere, or I find same size/shape hose that I can use. I think that's pretty much the only thing left for me to get.
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:30 PM   #1459
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As soon as FM's silicone lower rad hose is not backordered.

Or I find one for sale elsewhere, or I find same size/shape hose that I can use. I think that's pretty much the only thing left for me to get.
Why not just use the OEM hose for now?
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:59 PM   #1460
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because it's directly in the way of the compressor outlet/cold side charge pipe
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