hustler's "driver shame" thread - Page 58 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-14-2011, 06:43 PM   #1141
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Ok, help me make decisions.

I think part of the burnt valve problem could have been from wet-out. Should I consider MS2 with sequential fuel? I know it's a lot of wiring and I'll have to connect a hall sensor and mod the CAS for the CMP, but it may be worth it.

Water injection. Why should I not add a 1GPH nozzle to this car only for the track, without special tuning dependent upon water?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 06:56 PM   #1142
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,835
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

why do you have to do all that?
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 07:00 PM   #1143
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,895
Total Cats: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Quote:
I just dropped it off with the machinist. The intake valves aren't sealing at all, most exhaust valves seal fine, although the machinist said it looked like the erroded valve was a weak stock, bad out of the box and that it was very rare but he's seen it before.
I swear every time I pulled a head off a Miata, it had at least one leaky valve. Every ******* time

Quote:
I'm going to buy Y8's SS valves, get stronger Supertech single springs, and a valve job then be on my way. Now I will have a $1k head. $400 in labor for the valve job and lash adjustment, not too bad.
I thought you had a stock cam. I wish you would consider using your stock springs, and adding shim under buckets.

Stiffer springs will do one thing for you....Rob horsepower. It is only really important if you are turning the motor harder, and a necessity when using more camshaft.

Shim under buckets will do two things for you. It will give you a tad more power, and it will also act like having a stiffer spring with the stock valvetrain. The lighter valvetrain will make your stock springs capable of closing more effectively at high rpms.

It works. Please tell me you will consider it.
miata2fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 07:29 PM   #1144
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
why do you have to do all that?
Apparently its common for wet-out/fuel dripping onto the intake valve to cause elevated valve temps. Either the valves bent or burnt, I'll know with certainty soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I thought you had a stock cam. I wish you would consider using your stock springs, and adding shim under buckets.

Stiffer springs will do one thing for you....Rob horsepower. It is only really important if you are turning the motor harder, and a necessity when using more camshaft.

Shim under buckets will do two things for you. It will give you a tad more power, and it will also act like having a stiffer spring with the stock valvetrain. The lighter valvetrain will make your stock springs capable of closing more effectively at high rpms.

It works. Please tell me you will consider it.
I have a stock cam. I'm going to the stiffer spring for a few reasons, backpressure on on the hot-side, boost on the other side, and bumpy tracks. My machinist said that its possible for bumps or curbs to cause the valve to open or float. I know this sounds strange, but this guy builds about 25% of the SM motors in the country and does ~3 per week.

The real reason I'm getting new springs is age. These springs had 75k miles on them before I built the engine, then I did almost 100 hours of track time on them, and 25k miles. I don't care about the HP loss, I care about the reliability.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 08:01 PM   #1145
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 201
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
When it comes to fuel, I think I was SS so the hose will saw through stuff that rubs, rather than wear a hole. Do I need fancy kevlar? I don't care what it looks like, I care about the function and not using fire extinguishers in general. This is strictly a reliability and safety mod, while cleaning up my hood-ride.

I bought the spendy teflon #10 hose for my oil cooler to extend the service life. Can I use the same stuff on fuel lines?

Does anyone have a specific hardline to braided line fitting they recommend? I'm scared about this part and need someone to hold me (by the genitals).

Also, and most importantly, wtf should I do with my factory regulator? Do I put a hard-line converter on there or use the eBay FPR I picked-up for $20? I'd rather not buy a $200 Fuel Lab regulator because I'm not certain that I need it.

I used -6 AN braided line and fittings for my fuel lines. If I had to do it again, I would probably stick with the kevlar covered lines, which is what I used for all of my oil lines. Kevlar is so much easier to work with, the SS lines can be a total bitch to work with. The kevlar is also a bit lighter and not as flashy, especially if you use the silver/black fittings instead of the traditional red/blue fittings.

You need a "tube fitting adapter" to convert the hard lines to AN lines. I believe the tubes are 5/16", but they could be 3/8".
Earl's Performance -6 AN (Male) to 5/16" Tube Adapter Fitting
Earl's Performance -6 AN (Male) to 3/8" Tube Adapter Fitting

The hard lines in the car are flared. If you decide to use these adapters, you'll want to cut off the flare and make sure you have a nice, straight bit of tube to work with. My hard tubes were slightly trimmed and straightened/bent a bit. Amazingly, done right, they won't leak.

I like Aeroquip StartLite kevlar hose. The outer braid is black with a red trace. Stuff is light, pliable, and easy to work with.

British American Transport (BAT-Inc) is the US importer for Mocal. They also carry a good selection of hoses and fittings. Depending on what you get, sometimes their prices are better than Summit. The customer service there is excellent, if you ever have questions or want about hoses, fittings, or any of their products. www.bat-inc.net

If you are happy with the fuel pressure you are getting from the stock regulator, then there is no need to replace it. Keep it mounted to the top of the M-Tuned fuel rail. For the return line from the stock fuel pressure regulator, I'd have a 3/8" barb attached (welded or brazed?) to the fpr's output tube. I wouldn't mess with a hard line adapter there.
wildo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 08:50 PM   #1146
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildo View Post
For the return line from the stock fuel pressure regulator, I'd have a 3/8" barb attached (welded or brazed?) to the fpr's output tube. I wouldn't mess with a hard line adapter there.
What's the point of using some SS or kevlar hose if I'm not going all the way?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 08:56 PM   #1147
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Um wait, why are you redoing your fuel system?

Also, regardless of the outer material, if you're using fuel, you want the hose with the teflon/PTFE guts. Summit sells it.

Do not use an ebay regulator. A genuine aeromotive is only $130 from amazon. I used a nice small one that comes with -6 fittings.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 09:02 PM   #1148
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,895
Total Cats: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post

I have a stock cam. I'm going to the stiffer spring for a few reasons, backpressure on on the hot-side, boost on the other side, and bumpy tracks. My machinist said that its possible for bumps or curbs to cause the valve to open or float. I know this sounds strange, but this guy builds about 25% of the SM motors in the country and does ~3 per week.

The real reason I'm getting new springs is age. These springs had 75k miles on them before I built the engine, then I did almost 100 hours of track time on them, and 25k miles. I don't care about the HP loss, I care about the reliability.
I am not doubting your man's expertise. However SM cars have to run stock lifters. The NAs have to run the heavy as **** hydraulic.

Perhaps you should buy a new set of 94-97 springs. They are stiff enough to lug the heavy hydraulic lifters. With the shim under buckets, I would think they would not have any problem closing on the bumpiest of tracks. SUBs are very light compared to hydraulics. Don't forget that Y8s valves will be lighter than stock as well. Together the valvetrain will be very reliable. No more worries about slinging out stock shims either.

If you have any doubts about the spring's ability to close, add titanium retainers. Why buy something that will throw power away, when you can spend money elsewhere to get the same results and more power???
miata2fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 09:04 PM   #1149
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Um wait, why are you redoing your fuel system?
Reliability, cleanliness, and safety. If it ever got hot under that hood, I'd want SS hose rather than rubber. Whatever I use is getting wrapped in fire-sleeve.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 09:08 PM   #1150
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I am not doubting your man's expertise. However SM cars have to run stock lifters. The NAs have to run the heavy as **** hydraulic.

Perhaps you should buy a new set of 94-97 springs. They are stiff enough to lug the heavy hydraulic lifters. With the shim under buckets, I would think they would not have any problem closing on the bumpiest of tracks. SUBs are very light compared to hydraulics. Don't forget that Y8s valves will be lighter than stock as well. Together the valvetrain will be very reliable. No more worries about slinging out stock shims either.

If you have any doubts about the spring's ability to close, add titanium retainers. Why buy something that will throw power away, when you can spend money elsewhere to get the same results and more power???
I appreciate the concern, but I'm not spending $400+ to convert to SUB, $250 in OEM springs, and $200 on retainers. If I lose any power, I'll add .25psi of boost. I don't have the money to do this in the first place.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 09:13 PM   #1151
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,895
Total Cats: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I appreciate the concern, but I'm not spending $400+ to convert to SUB, $250 in OEM springs, and $200 on retainers. If I lose any power, I'll add .25psi of boost. I don't have the money to do this in the first place.
Just trying to help.

When you do have the money to do more cylinder head work, I hope you consider it.
miata2fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 09:58 PM   #1152
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: south texas
Posts: 1,419
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I just dropped it off with the machinist. The intake valves aren't sealing at all, most exhaust valves seal fine, although the machinist said it looked like the erroded valve was a weak stock, bad out of the box and that it was very rare but he's seen it before. I'm going to buy Y8's SS valves, get stronger Supertech single springs, and a valve job then be on my way. Now I will have a $1k head. $400 in labor for the valve job and lash adjustment, not too bad.
that 1k includes labor i hope.

let's see on, my 4g63 head was:

275.00 port/polish work. (not fair price, bro price from a port/polish madman)
215.00 crower springs and Ti retainers
176.00 swirl polished, undercut, stainless valves from Si valves
500.00 276/276 web cams
150.00 3 angle valve job, deck, and swap out hardware (valves, springs, etc)
$1316.00 total

raise rev limit from 7000 to 8,250rpm on stock bottom end. win
wish i could put my 4g63 in my miata. 400+whp on stock bottom is awesome.
spoolin2bars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 11:05 AM   #1153
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

$400 for the valve job, decking, lash adjustment, and pressure testing.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 01:39 PM   #1154
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,881
Total Cats: 45
Default

1.) The hose I mentioned is an Eaton/ Weatherhead product, PN H100xx where xx is the AN size. It uses a nitrile inner liner, which is gasoline and alcohol safe. My hose dude (Anthony @ Imperial Supply in Huntsville, AL, btw. Feel free to call him and tell him Chris Spalding sent you) gets <$4/ foot for it in -6 size.


2.) I don't like male hard line adapters. They cost more, look silly, and add possible leak points. I like to run tube nuts and sleeves, and re-flare the tube to the length I need.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...s&kr=tube+nuts

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...r=tube+sleeves

Last edited by vehicular; 10-15-2011 at 01:50 PM.
vehicular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 01:56 PM   #1155
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 201
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
What's the point of using some SS or kevlar hose if I'm not going all the way?
You would still use ss or kevlar hose, just with a barbed fitting on the fpr end.
wildo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 11:04 PM   #1156
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vehicular View Post
1.) The hose I mentioned is an Eaton/ Weatherhead product, PN H100xx where xx is the AN size. It uses a nitrile inner liner, which is gasoline and alcohol safe. My hose dude (Anthony @ Imperial Supply in Huntsville, AL, btw. Feel free to call him and tell him Chris Spalding sent you) gets <$4/ foot for it in -6 size.


2.) I don't like male hard line adapters. They cost more, look silly, and add possible leak points. I like to run tube nuts and sleeves, and re-flare the tube to the length I need.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...s&kr=tube+nuts

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...r=tube+sleeves
Thanks, that's why I put this info in here, I knew someone had better answers than what I had in my head.

However, I'm still not really sure how tube nuts work. This is one pic I found, but how does it attach to the hose?

Does a standard hose-end thread into that nut? If so, I love you.

Does Anthony have an email? Can he get black or red hose fittings? If he can get close to Bat-Inc's prices, I'll use him.
Attached Thumbnails
hustler's &quot;driver shame&quot; thread-1007rc_06_z-aeromotive_stealth_fuel_system_stealthy_option-flare_with_tube_nuts.jpg  
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 02:06 AM   #1157
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,982
Total Cats: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Thanks, that's why I put this info in here, I knew someone had better answers than what I had in my head.

However, I'm still not really sure how tube nuts work. This is one pic I found, but how does it attach to the hose?

Does a standard hose-end thread into that nut? If so, I love you.

Does Anthony have an email? Can he get black or red hose fittings? If he can get close to Bat-Inc's prices, I'll use him.
FYI After tightening finger tight, I believe you only want to make another 1/4 turn with a wrench otherwise you risk splitting the flare.
miatauser884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 10:34 AM   #1158
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,881
Total Cats: 45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Thanks, that's why I put this info in here, I knew someone had better answers than what I had in my head.

However, I'm still not really sure how tube nuts work. This is one pic I found, but how does it attach to the hose?

Does a standard hose-end thread into that nut? If so, I love you.

Does Anthony have an email? Can he get black or red hose fittings? If he can get close to Bat-Inc's prices, I'll use him.

The sleeve butts up against the flare, and the nut slides over it, and has AN threads. You just use a male hose end, and rock out. You can probably use the swage lock-type fittings that you would normally use on stainless braided hose, but I always use stainless push-on type fittings with a pinch clamp like McMaster pn 5435K16 for nerdy self assurance. The push on fittings can be a ***** to get into the hose, but a little determination and generic slippery stuff will get them on.


(256) 533-3773 ‎is Anthony's phone number. He's the stereotypical old-man-parts-guy, so, while I'm sure he has an email, the phone is absolutely the best way to get ahold of him. I prefer his stainless fittings. The industrial suppliers he uses don't do enough volume in aluminum to have reasonable prices. He will be able to tell you what he can and can't get, though, obviously. And he will be the first to tell you if somebody can do a better job, or sell you a better product. He's honest to a fault.
vehicular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 12:27 PM   #1159
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

www.aircraftspruce.com

Also, when you make these flares, you should be using a 37 flaring tool. If you use a 45, you will have problems with tube splitting.

If you're going to work with aerospace parts, I suggest you download FAA AC 43.13-1B here:

http://www1.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...E?OpenDocument

It's the bible.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 08:29 PM   #1160
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Any thoughts on a heater delete? I haven't used it in about 2-years, since that time it snowed on my way to Houston.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:32 AM.