Ian's 99 build thread
05-22-2017, 07:54 PM
#944
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I will just stick with my old, tired miata, maybe I can make it to 250k. Sounds like the guys need to make MS4, direct injection, seat, body, tire, with extra future computer disabling features for some of us.
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05-22-2017, 08:21 PM
#946
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I don't think its mandatory, its just added on as a "keeping up with the Joneses" feature. The new Ford comes with a backup camera tied into the infotanment system? Well, we better add this to all new GMs, can't let Ford get a leg up on us. As a result, the prices keep going up and quality keeps going down.
And I'm not talking about $60k luxosports, this is more and more common in the $13-$24k commuter and entry level car range as well. I'd much rather that TPMS or backup camera system be omitted, and maybe they spend that money on better materials for the steering wheel, or some additional sound deadening, or upholstery that does not feel like its been woven out of something that grew out of my back.
And I'm not talking about $60k luxosports, this is more and more common in the $13-$24k commuter and entry level car range as well. I'd much rather that TPMS or backup camera system be omitted, and maybe they spend that money on better materials for the steering wheel, or some additional sound deadening, or upholstery that does not feel like its been woven out of something that grew out of my back.
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05-22-2017, 08:39 PM
#947
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Some kind of tire pressure monitoring is mandatory (as of Sep 2007), you can thank the media's reaction to the Ford Explorer/Firestone debacle for that.
The cheap system uses wheel speed sensors. A tire that's low on pressure has a smaller radius, therefore it turns faster than one that's got the correct pressure in it. This works reasonably well for detecting one tire that's going flat, but it's not so good at detecting 4 tires that just haven't been topped up in ages and are all leaking at the same rate.
The direct monitoring system covers more cases and is more sensitive, but also more failure prone. That said, the bugs seem to have been largely worked out of it by now, and it's not a big deal for most for most people who don't buy multiple sets of wheels and who drive the car often enough to run out of tread before they run out of battery power.
--Ian
(Edit: was just reading the wikipedia article about TPMS and apparently the "wheel speed sensor" systems can actually detect simultaneous lowering of pressure on all four tires by looking for particular oscillations and vibrations. Crazy.)
The cheap system uses wheel speed sensors. A tire that's low on pressure has a smaller radius, therefore it turns faster than one that's got the correct pressure in it. This works reasonably well for detecting one tire that's going flat, but it's not so good at detecting 4 tires that just haven't been topped up in ages and are all leaking at the same rate.
The direct monitoring system covers more cases and is more sensitive, but also more failure prone. That said, the bugs seem to have been largely worked out of it by now, and it's not a big deal for most for most people who don't buy multiple sets of wheels and who drive the car often enough to run out of tread before they run out of battery power.
--Ian
(Edit: was just reading the wikipedia article about TPMS and apparently the "wheel speed sensor" systems can actually detect simultaneous lowering of pressure on all four tires by looking for particular oscillations and vibrations. Crazy.)
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05-22-2017, 08:47 PM
#949
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Great. So now I have to stick with pre 2007 cars.
I thought I read somewhere that the OEM systems were actually setup to detect temperature rather than pressure, due to the fact that a tire will run hot when low. Is that not the case anymore?
I thought I read somewhere that the OEM systems were actually setup to detect temperature rather than pressure, due to the fact that a tire will run hot when low. Is that not the case anymore?
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05-22-2017, 08:54 PM
#950
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Indirect TPMS is pretty much invisible unless you want to run staggered tire diameters or something stupid like that.
--Ian
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05-22-2017, 09:22 PM
#953
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Ok, so TPMS I can see, but what about all the other stupid options? I also loathe that they force you into this stuff with options packages. What ever happened to the days where you could buy a car without a stereo?
EO2k: Greetings sales drone. I would like to exchange money for a new Focus ST in Oxford White, manual transmission, with the HID headlights.
Sales drone: Sure, that's the 401A Equipment Group. You get those things and eleventybillion other features you don't want, and as a bonus it adds $4,000 to the sticker!
E: I don't want the other $3,600 worth of options, all I want is the base car with the OEM HIDs.
S: Sorry, but those parts are only available as part of the 401A Equipment Group. You have to order the whole group.
E: Where is the parts department?
S: ...why?
E: I'd like to get a quote for how much its going to cost to order all the OEM parts to retrofit headlights I want.
S: I don't think they will install those parts for you.
E: I didn't ask you to install them, I plan to install them myself.
S: But that'll void your warranty!
E: Really? Well then nevermind, I'll just go buy a 10 year old Subaru
...and now I daily a 2004 WRX. 
Originally Posted by Adventures in Car Shopping with EO2k!
EO2k: Greetings sales drone. I would like to exchange money for a new Focus ST in Oxford White, manual transmission, with the HID headlights.
Sales drone: Sure, that's the 401A Equipment Group. You get those things and eleventybillion other features you don't want, and as a bonus it adds $4,000 to the sticker!
E: I don't want the other $3,600 worth of options, all I want is the base car with the OEM HIDs.
S: Sorry, but those parts are only available as part of the 401A Equipment Group. You have to order the whole group.
E: Where is the parts department?
S: ...why?
E: I'd like to get a quote for how much its going to cost to order all the OEM parts to retrofit headlights I want.
S: I don't think they will install those parts for you.
E: I didn't ask you to install them, I plan to install them myself.
S: But that'll void your warranty!
E: Really? Well then nevermind, I'll just go buy a 10 year old Subaru
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And for only $4,000 more, I coulda yanked the stereo out for you. You shoulda asked.
05-22-2017, 11:18 PM
#955
One of the problems with trying to retrofit the higher spec lights on a base car is that a lot of the time now it will have completely different wiring or even completely different modules. Or the lights will even have a module inside them. When I connect the scan tool to a GM product and do a full vehicle scan for codes it'll ask me what lighting options it has so it knows what modules are installed in the car. Also the only problems I really see with in tire tpms sensors are the batterys failing in them and needing to be replaced (gm) or aluminum wheels corroding around the valve stem then leaking (toyota). Gm doesn't make the metal stem ones anymore so if they fail you replace them with the rubber stem ones. I think its pretty nice to have except for the gm ones have to be reprogrammed after every tire rotation.
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05-22-2017, 11:57 PM
#956
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vlad, your wife's Mazda6 is indirect, as are all current Mazdas. GM uses direct in pretty much everything. The honda pilot is direct. my VW wagon was indirect.
G, the big reason they force you into other option packages is that they try to bundle popular things together to streamline manufacturing. The fewer iterations you have to build of a vehicle, the less you have to change things up and waste time and money. It's annoying. BUT on the bright side, you often do get each feature for less.
Example: On most Mazdas, the moonroof is paired with the Bose stereo. I'd often have people complain about this. But when you point out that they're only paying $800-1000 (invoice) for BOTH features, suddenly it's way more palatable.
G, the big reason they force you into other option packages is that they try to bundle popular things together to streamline manufacturing. The fewer iterations you have to build of a vehicle, the less you have to change things up and waste time and money. It's annoying. BUT on the bright side, you often do get each feature for less.
Example: On most Mazdas, the moonroof is paired with the Bose stereo. I'd often have people complain about this. But when you point out that they're only paying $800-1000 (invoice) for BOTH features, suddenly it's way more palatable.
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05-23-2017, 02:05 AM
#959
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G, the big reason they force you into other option packages is that they try to bundle popular things together to streamline manufacturing. The fewer iterations you have to build of a vehicle, the less you have to change things up and waste time and money. It's annoying. BUT on the bright side, you often do get each feature for less.
I'm sort of keeping an eye open for DIY hackable direct TPMS sensors. I'd like to install them in my R comps so I can datalog tire pressures & temperatures on track...
--Ian
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