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Old 08-23-2014, 05:17 PM   #101
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They can be re-used if he measures stretch and confirms they're good.

Which he probably wont.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:12 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Arent stock head bolts single use only and thats why we all just end up with ARP studs?
I have no clue if they are supposed to be single use or not, but I have reused stock head bolts without measuring anything on them on dozens of Miata's with and without boost and I have never had an issue.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:21 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Arent stock head bolts single use only and thats why we all just end up with ARP studs?
The factory service manual does not say they have to be replaced, so deduction logic says they CAN be reused. The FSM is very specific about what should be replaced, there is very clearly a large "R" on all of the part diagrams for the parts that should be replaced. The cylinder head bolts have to "R" next to them, and there is no mention of replacing them anywhere in the manual that I could find (or mention of measuring them for that matter). I think the reason everyone uses ARP is because, A: They is scerred to reuse head bolts and B: ARP head studs are basically the same price as new OEM bolts so why not?

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They can be re-used if he measures stretch and confirms they're good.

Which he probably wont.
Get out of my head!!!!



SO...I got some time to install the head. Re-used the OEM head bolts. All gaskets including the headgasket are from the "DNJ" Rock Auto engine gasket kit I bought. Hopefully the non-OEM, cheapy headgasket can take ~300whp.

Pictures...because why not take up internet bandwidth to post pictures of stuff people have seen hundreds of times before?


Cylinder head AS-RECEIVED from the machine shop so many moons ago



Even though the head was hot-tanked, it wasn't 100% squeaky clean so I took some brake cleaner to it. Here's a top view of the head, after some quick cleaning.



Here's the bottom of the head. Compare to pictures early in this thread, much improved to the pleasure of 18psi I hope.



The aforementioned OEM (ZOMFG!?!?!?!) head bolts, ready for cleaning and install.



Head installed and torqued down. A note about numbering: I numbered the bolts during disassembly. The numbers correspond to the "loosening pattern" shown in the FSM. So they are the opposite of the "tightening pattern".



Where I stopped this evening. My garage needs cleaning...



I wrote some huge, long, very insightful, hopefully informative diatribe about my logic for re-using the OEM head bolts. In an exceptionally cruel mis-hap of the "forwards" and "backwards" buttons on the side of my STUPID FRIGGEN *#(&* MOUSE it is lost.

The moral of the diatribe was that I worked for a long time at Honda R&D on engine fasteners, and if Mazda's OEM fastener quality is anywhere near what Honda's is/was, then I think they'll be OK.



Hopefully I'll either prove that not using ARP head-studs is a terrible idea, or re-using stock OEM headbolts is totally OK if you're on a budget. Hope...lolz

Last edited by Efini~FC3S; 08-25-2014 at 02:02 PM. Reason: cleaned up some poor grammamar; moral / morale - basically the same right?
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:02 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
The factory service manual does not say they have to be replaced, so deduction logic says they CAN be reused. The FSM is very specific about what should be replaced, there is very clearly a large "R" on all of the part diagrams for the parts that should be replaced. The cylinder head bolts have to "R" next to them, and there is no mention of replacing them anywhere in the manual that I could find (or mention of measuring them for that matter). I think the reason everyone uses ARP is because, A: They is scerred to reuse head bolts and B: ARP head studs are basically the same price as new OEM bolts so why not?



Get out of my head!!!!



SO...I got some time to install the head. Re-used the OEM head bolts. All gaskets including the headgasket are from the "DNJ" Rock Auto engine gasket kit I bought. Hopefully the non-OEM, cheapy headgasket can take ~300whp.

Pictures...because why not take up internet bandwidth to post pictures of stuff people have seen hundreds of times before?


Cylinder head AS-RECEIVED from the machine shop so many moons ago



Even though the head was hot-tanked, it wasn't 100% squeaky clean so I took some brake cleaner to it. Here's a top view of the head, after some quick cleaning.



Here's the bottom of the head. Compare to pictures early in this thread, much improved to the pleasure of 18psi I hope.



The aforementioned OEM (ZOMFG!?!?!?!) head bolts, ready for cleaning and install.



Head installed and torqued down. A note about numbering: I numbered the bolts during disassembly. The numbers correspond to the "loosening pattern" shown in the FSM. So they are the opposite of the "tightening pattern".



Where I stopped this evening. My garage needs cleaning...



I wrote some huge, long, very insightful, hopefully informative diatribe about my logic for re-using the OEM head bolts. In an exceptionally cruel mis-hap of the "forwards" and "backwards" buttons on the side of my STUPID FRIGGEN *#(&* MOUSE it is lost.

The morale of the diatribe was that I worked for a long time at Honda R&D on engine fasteners, and if Mazda's OEM fastener quality is anywhere near what Honda's is/was, then I think they'll be OK.



Hopefully I'll either prove that not using ARP head-studs is a terrible idea, or re-using stock OEM headbolts is totally OK if you're on a budget. Hope...lolz

i really hate those buttons on my mouse. i have experienced similar loss of data that way. they might get disabled in the near future.

your garage doesnt look half as bad as mine. nice choice on engine paint.

hows the motorcycle fund going?
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:40 PM   #105
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it is refreshing to see someone who thinks logically instea dof "throw money at a problem and it'll fix itself"
i can def see why you used the same bolts...they almost never stretch unless you go ape **** on the torquing.
DNJ makes great quality stuff, i used it on my miata and my srt-4 builds with amazing results.

keep it up man...cna't wait to see it running
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:06 PM   #106
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Quote:
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hows the motorcycle fund going?
Lolz, I was wondering if anyone was going to notice that. I think that piggy bank stopped being a "motorcycle" fund about 2010. I should cross out motorcycle and probably put "race car" or something...
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:33 PM   #107
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Quote:
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Compare to pictures early in this thread, much improved to the pleasure of 18psi I hope.
I love it when you pleasure me

What did you paint block with?
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:16 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
What did you paint block with?
Whatever engine paint crap they sell at Autozone.

I don't remember the exact brand or color, I bought it so long ago. I might have it around somewhere, I'll try to remember to check for it.
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Old 08-25-2014, 11:06 PM   #109
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So I got an okay amount of work done on Sunday, a little more than I had hoped actually.

Head is mostly assembled. Valve cover needs the baffles reinstalled. I shot blasted the valve cover which turned out to be a bigger headache than benefit. I had to remove all the baffles and plates to really clean it to get all of the media out. Pain in the ****.


Next step after bolting the head down was installing the M-tuned reroute.




As you can see, I painted the valve cover. I picked the closest thing they had to pink at Autozone/Advance




Head assembly continued









A preview of the finished product








I'm not 100% if I want the coolant neck on the front of the motor or if I'm going to try to source a freeze plug and seal it off. It seems like the ports on the m-tuned cover might come in handy?

What do most people do with the M-tuned reroute? Freeze plug or run the block-off plate and use the ports?


Next up is to finish cleaning up the valve cover and get it 100% put back together. Then timing stuff, ancillaries, intake manifold, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:48 PM   #110
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Triple Post?!?

No comments on my "color" choice for the valve cover?


Also, as asked above, what are people usually doing with the front coolant neck after re-route? Are the ports useful or are the mostly for show. Can turbo water line return go the the front block off plate (even though it's not adiabatically ideal nor uphill???)? Or should I take the time to freeze plug that sh*t?

:-/
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:08 PM   #111
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The front spot can be used to feed the turbo with the water pump inlet being the return. Then once the car is off direction of flow would probably reverse and it would be ok. I just find it easier to pull the turbo water off the reroute spacer.
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:22 PM   #112
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I block off the front water outlet. That point could be useful as turbo water line feed. The turbo water line return must go to the mixing manifold. These are the high pressure and low pressure points from the pump.

I had extremely bad luck with the DNJ gaskets from the standpoint of cam and rear main seals. Both cam seals leaked right away. The rear main seal leaked after about a month. I would definitely do OEM on those. On my last engine build, rebuilder wanted to use DNJ and I refused and provided him with Mazda OEM using my Mazdaspeed discount. Absolutely no issues.

Head bolts can be reused -- they're nowhere close to TTY as long as torqued to factory specs. However, on my Silver car, I blew 2 head gaskets. That was a 1.6 with a composite head gasket, so different animal. But I always do MLS and ARP studs now. A nut on a stud will provide a more consistent clamping force vs. torque than a bolt -- unless the bolt hole threads are absolutely perfect/clean/lubed.

YMMV.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:09 PM   #113
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Default LET'S PLAY PRETEND

Pretend you are a sad sack of uselessness and this is your life:










How would you improve your life?
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:01 PM   #114
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Thanks for documenting this so well. This thread is going to be invaluable to me in the coming months. Thanks! Awesome work
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:48 AM   #115
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Any ideas on how to fix the disaster pictured above? I'm at a bit of a loss.

It's hard to see in the pictures, but the crank key is broken off and stuck in the key way.

F

A

E

L
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:21 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Any ideas on how to fix the disaster pictured above? I'm at a bit of a loss.

It's hard to see in the pictures, but the crank key is broken off and stuck in the key way.

F

A

E

L
Get a pry bar behind the pulley and slowly wobble it off would be my best suggestion.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:46 PM   #117
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I was leery of prying around the oil pump housing and water pump housing for fear of breaking some hpdc Aluminium piece. I'll try to gently wiggle it off tonight but the key seems pretty lodged in there

Ughhh
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:48 PM   #118
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Vice grips on the key?

Otherwise see if you can pry only pressing on the bolt heads in the area.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:18 PM   #119
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tap it with a hammer really lightly. lube it up with something. with enough vibration and lube I think it will come out. (insert vibration/lube jokes here)
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:22 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Vice grips on the key?
That's how we arrived at this conundrum. There isn't enough material sticking out to grab onto, at least not anymore...
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