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Old 08-15-2014, 11:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Alternator output is controlled by ECU, and the alternators themselves don't seem to be as long-lived as the NA units. When going standalone, if you keep that same control system, it's nice to be able to glance and see what's going on.

While actively tuning, not a big deal, since you'll be logging voltage anyways. The rest of the time, it's not the worst thing in the world to be able to glance over and see what's up.
lol I don't know what you're smoking with that 1st part, but it aint true unless you have a self-built ms and didn't set up the alt control properly.
Rev and Brain built ms' all have zero alternator issues, and nb alternators are not any worse than na ones even one bit.

I think you shoulda start with the last part: it wont hurt to have that gauge. but its more or less useless.
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I may have forgotten to mention it above, but when I install the FM turbo kit, I'll also be installing their level 1 clutch. FM rates it at 318 ft/lb, so I think that should cover me (until the day I inevitably change my mind about the "no upgrading engine internals" thing ).
fantastic clutch. highly recommend
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:34 AM   #22
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lol I don't know what you're smoking with that 1st part, but it aint true unless you have a self-built ms and didn't set up the alt control properly.
Rev and Brain built ms' all have zero alternator issues, and nb alternators are not any worse than na ones even one bit.

That's why we have people with their ECUs in the thread for Frank's board, right?

Even in stock form, i've seen a few threads where they fail in a bad way, and overvolt the **** out of everything.

I'm in the same boat, i wouldn't go out of my way to add one, but i wouldn't call it "useless."
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:38 AM   #23
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That's why we have people with their ECUs in the thread for Frank's board, right?

Even in stock form, i've seen a few threads where they fail in a bad way, and overvolt the **** out of everything.

I'm in the same boat, i wouldn't go out of my way to add one, but i wouldn't call it "useless."
1) re-read my post about self built
2) I've yet to see these threads you're talking about. Stop being a drama queen. Just be the regular queen that you are.
3) Agreed
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:30 PM   #24
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Towards the end of September, after a two-month wait, Rev's MS3 finally arrived!



I'm not a patient person, so that two-month wait was probably the hardest thing I've ever done On to the installation!

I had already tee'd off a vacuum line, which is shared with the sender for my boost gauge.



I had ordered the wideband serial CAN bus interface with the MS3, so I soldered together a serial cable for the AEM wideband's serial output.





As long as I'm digging around under the dash, I'm going to eliminate the godawful rat's nest that the previous owner (or the dealer?) left when they installed the alarm.



Ahh, much better:



I ordered a 10' USB cable with a right-angle connector at the B end, since I knew space would be at a premium under the dash. I removed the factory ECU, and got the MS3 mounted up there with zip ties.



The serial wideband interface was fastened to the steering column.



I routed the USB cable under trim and carpets to the center console. From here, I use a 6' USB extension cable to connect it to my computer.



I also ordered a Switchcraft USB jack which would make for a pretty slick install in the little removable plate on the right side of the center console by the passenger's knees, but I'm not sure if I'll install it, because the existing setup is working quite well, and doesn't require any irreversible cutting.



Base timing set:





Now time for tuning. The car is still totally stock other than the MS3. Rev's base tune worked fairly well, but I decided to enable the Incorporate AFRTarget option, which required retuning the whole table. I used a spreadsheet to rescale the AFR target table to the same dimensions as the VE table, and to factor out the AFR from the VE values. From there, I've been running VEAL for about a week, and learning a lot about the process.

The first thing I learned is that you really need to be sure the car is in a fully steady-state condition before using VEAL. I knew VEAL has a filter that prevents it from working while the coolant is below 160 F, so I figured once it reaches that filter, it's fair game. So I'd tune during my 20 minute drive out in the morning, and it would do a bunch of leaning out of the table. Then I'd tune on the way home a few hours later, and suddenly I'd be running 18:1 AFRs and it would have to richen things back up.

Eventually I figured out that the morning tuning must be inaccurate -- better to wait to tune until I've been driving around for quite a while, and then tweak the warm-up enrichment etc to deal with the cold morning drives.

After a few weeks of tuning, here's the tables I'm at so far. I kept Rev's supplied tables which span up to 240 kPa, because the intention is to add the turbo kit within the next few months. Of course, that means that for now, I'm operating in just the bottom half of the table.





The AFR target and spark tables are completely untouched from Rev's initial base tune:





At this point, the car drives quite well -- feels great in all driving conditions I've encountered so far, and the AFRs are on target or a little rich. VEAL hasn't been having to make very significant changes lately, so I'm considering this close to done. I've now got my EGO control set to 20% authority, to help stay closer on target, and I did a little tuning of the PID EGO PID algorithm too.

I'm still keeping an eye on morning drives -- the WUE may need a little more attention, but it's not bad.

The only thing I'd still really like to improve is the initial cranking. With the factory ECU, it cranked for maybe a second and then started with confidence. With the MS3, it cranks longer before it catches (maybe 2 seconds), and then it kind of burbles up to idling speed over the next second or so. It has never failed to start, but it sure doesn't sound as good as the factory ECU did. But I haven't found much discussion of tuning cranking settings, so I'm still trying to do more learning before I fiddle with those settings.

As I continue saving up for the remaining parts (turbo kit, clutch, timing belt kit, new seals, etc), the next step will be to install the ID1000's I've already got on hand, and get the map retuned for the larger injectors. I understand this should be as simple as adjusting REQ_FUEL and doing some minor VEAL -- it'll be interesting to see if it's really as easy as they say
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #25
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Winning! I like your little USB panel mount thing. It'll probably come out cleaner than mine:



Round hole is going to be much easier to pretty up than my square one. Then again, I have no radio in my car so plenty of dash real estate for install.

I'm doing the same, running on the bottom half of the map for now. Also, you are going to need to change more than just req_fuel and VEAL if you are jumping from stock injectors to the 1000s, but I'm sure you knew that

Good progress, keep moving forward!
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:05 PM   #26
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Sweet build. Only thing I see, would be to ziptie the vacuum hoses. Use a zip tie like a hose clamp, it will help guarantee a hose never pops off, especially if the engine were to ever backfire or high boost. Ask me how I know....
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:10 PM   #27
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Winning! I like your little USB panel mount thing. It'll probably come out cleaner than mine:



Round hole is going to be much easier to pretty up than my square one. Then again, I have no radio in my car so plenty of dash real estate for install.

I'm doing the same, running on the bottom half of the map for now. Also, you are going to need to change more than just req_fuel and VEAL if you are jumping from stock injectors to the 1000s, but I'm sure you knew that

Good progress, keep moving forward!
Ah, nice, that's a good solution too. Yours actually might work better -- mine is just an adapter that needs a cable plugged into it, and based on the measurements I took of the space behind that little panel, I'm not totally sure there will be space for all that. Maybe with a 90-degree USB cable if I can find one. But your solution might be more compact.

My understanding is that the Injector Dynamics injectors are so well matched that they work well even down to low duty cycles, so it should work about the same as factory even down at idle. What else should I expect to have to tweak when I install the ID1000's?

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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Sweet build. Only thing I see, would be to ziptie the vacuum hoses. Use a zip tie like a hose clamp, it will help guarantee a hose never pops off, especially if the engine were to ever backfire or high boost. Ask me how I know....
Ah, interesting, I hadn't considered that. Did you zip tie every single vacuum connection in the engine?
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:13 PM   #28
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Yes I did, on my miata and my subaru. Vac hose to fuel pressure regulator is super important for obvious reasons, and pops off on subarus at high boost all the time. It was literally the first reliability mod I did. I've done several since but that's basically easy and free. Did all the ones on miata of course, because 28 PSI
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Old 11-13-2014, 10:38 AM   #29
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Well, I guess I'm wussing out. I've been battling the tune on the MS3 for a few weeks, and haven't been able to get it to behave in all conditions. That's not all of it -- I'm sure eventually, with a bunch of troubleshooting and research, I could get it sorted out, or I could take it to a professional tuner. But I've just been realizing the Miata really doesn't fit me so well. I'm a larger dude, and don't so much get into the Miata as I put it on. And of course with the Miata's minimal adjustability (steering wheel, seat height, etc), there's not much room to make it fit me better.

My Mini Cooper, on the other hand, fits me perfectly (it's one of the few cars I've owned where I don't have to move my seat all the way to the farthest back position, and still wish for more), and as a factory turbo car, it's already sorted out and runs smoothly with no issues. It's not quite as nimble as the Miata, and it's not quite as fast as the Miata would have been once I installed the turbo, but I've finally come to terms with the fact that I'd rather have a car that's 70% as nimble and 70% as fast but is comfortable and doesn't need any work

I still love driving the Miata, and in a perfect world, I'd keep the Miata too as a project/autox car, but my wife and I are gearing up to buy a minivan next year (tun tun tun), so I'll need to sell the Miata to put together a down payment for that. Hehe, so it goes. Selling the sports car to buy a minivan -- a story as old as time

This weekend I'll be returning the Miata to stock and then I'll be listing both it and all the parts I've accumulated (Rev MS3 w/digital wideband interface, AEM wideband, new in box ID1000's, compact subwoofer, etc) for sale. Feel free to message me if you're interested in any of those parts, no need to wait till I post a sale thread.
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