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Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along
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Some of you may already know me, some of you may be meeting me for the first time. Welcome to yet another thread full of procrastination, indecision and doubt. No doubt some of you will feel right at home :)
Our story opens already in progress. The car is an NB1 2000 Mazda Miata in 18K Evolution Orange: Bare Bones Edition. (That's right, its a factory color. One of 646 produced. 10AE owners, eat your hearts out.) It started life with a 5 speed, 4.30 open diff, AC, PS, stock NB 14" rims and fog lights. The car had (IIRC) 101k on it when purchased. It was 100% untouched, other than the thrashed fabric on the drivers seat. So untouched that it still had the Panasonic battery in the trunk. After I bought the car I started doing autocross with the folks from NorCalUFO in Marina. Then I did a track day at ThunderHill. Then I stopped doing autocross. Haha! Here is the Butchers Bill for current modifications... Suspension, Brakes & Chassis:
Rims & Tires
Drivetrain, Engine & Cooling:
Other crap
Pictars of my dirty, dirty car: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 Oh yeah, purple top :giggle: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 More glorious purple top and monstrous 9x 6UL/225 rubber combo. Also a glimpse of the horrors that await us around the front... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 OH GOD WHY?! The Horror... the horror.... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 Much silver interior bits majesty. I don't know why but I like the color contrast. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 Ungh, I really need to fix this... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 Mostly stock engine compartment! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 Glorious wrapping skillz y0 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525014 I don't know why I took this picture. So yeah, that's about it. Not a whole lot to look at currently but there is definitely more to come. |
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Oo, what have we here?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395525871 MSLabs MS3 Basic for 99/00 Miata Fuel Injector Clinic 650cc EV14 Injectors Innovate Motorsport MTX-L wideband After 14 months I'm finally ready to get a MS3 in the car and I can;t find my fucking GM IAT. http://cdn1.raywenderlich.com/wp-con...ce-250x197.jpg Time to go dig up a part number and hope I can get one locally :vash: |
Are those some VEI Systems gauges I see there?
If so, which ones? |
Amazon does diyautotune stuff. Ordered to the door 2 days for my GM AIT
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I'm going to jack content from my other thread about these...
Gauge Project: I've done a lot of reading on this and trying to pay attention to what other people are doing. This was pretty much the genesis of what I wanted to do:
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 786860)
You want VEI guages. If I could spend the money again, I'd have VEI for everything with dual-display gauges.
With your two options, I'd say you do not want mechanical gauges at all. The last thing I want is fluids channeled into the cockpit.
Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 786991)
Second this. Very happy with my combo AFR/MAP(boost/vacuum) gauge from VEI.
Unless all you're going for is "looks," you should spend some time thinking about the parameters you want to monitor, how you want to monitor them, and visibility. Some established rules: 1. If what you care about is a value (like AFR), then it has been shown that humans acquire a digital value more quickly than any other type of presentation. This was actually shown during Army studies towards the end of WWII, and the finding surprised researchers. A clear single needle on a fixed, marked background came in second, but there can be resolution issues with that kind of presentation. 2. If what you care about is the dynamics of a value and how those dynamics compare to limitations (like engine RPM), then the analog pointer with a large sweep angle is the way to go. 3. Having a lot of gauges scattered around is never optimal, both from a clutter and visibility standpoint. That's the strength of the VEI dual gauges, you can condense what you need to look at and can place them in good locations. However, the VEI dual gauges are all-digital. So, evaluate what it is that you want to see on them. I would not use them for a tach, but for AFR and MAP . . . they're perfect. I'll call that $0.03.
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 787000)
If I could do this all over I'd...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1319411057 Do VEI dual display water and oil temp on the right where my Omori gauge lives VEI Dual Boost and AFR gauge on the left where the fuel lives leave the oil pressure Then take the fuel gauge, glue/foam it into a cheap gauge housing and stuff it by the radio.
Originally Posted by ThatGuy85
(Post 795795)
I'm not sure why a cop would give you a speeding ticket for having gauges, unless he got you on radar. Gauges aren't against the law..
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 815553)
But gauges are usually an indication that something is modified. I had this happen last weekend. Thankfully the blower was out of the car and everything is back to stock at the moment, but the Sparco seat, roll bar and dual gauge A pillar pod definitely got the cop hard.
Skidude: You have an 02 NB? This might interest you... The 04 and 05 cars came with a low fuel level warning light built into the cluster. All NB's are wired for this, all you need is a 04-05 cluster. Pull the fuel gauge out of that cluster and stick it in a single gauge housing and stick that below the radio/in the glove box, and then mount your wideband in the hole. Coincidentally, this is now my plan using a VEI Systems gauge, except I plan putting the wideband where the fake oil pressure gauge is, and then put a VEI oil press/temp gauge where the stock fuel gauge lives. (Credit for most of this idea goes to Hustler btw...) So what I've got... D1-BOP-WBA-MO dual display, boost in psi & wideband in AFR, orange display (LC1 to support) D1-IAF-WTF-MO dual display, IAT in F & water temp in F, orange display D1-OPP-OTF-MO dual display, Oil pressure in psi & oil temp in F, orange display ...plus a bitchload of sensors. I did everything in orange because I dislike red and blue is WAY to jarring in the cabin of the car. The orange has just the right amount of "softness" in the color, plus it will match the speedo and tach in the 04 cluster, and I've already changed everything else in the cabin over to orange. :p It may end up being a little more yellow than I was expecting, but it should be fine. Again, because these are in the cluster under the gauge hood, I have no doubt that readability should be spectacular. I'll see if I can power these bishes up tonight and get some pics. VEI gauges usully have a momentary push button on the face of the gauge that allows you to set parameters. As I'm mounting them behind the factory bezel, the default button placement will be inaccessible. VEI offers what they call the "motorcycle mod" where the gauge is built without a button in the face, and the leads are extended out the back of the gauge for a remote SPST momentary button. I don't plan on accessing these often so I'll probably stash them somewhere out of the way. I'm also reading there is recall and hi/lo alarm settings on these things... I didn't see documentation for that on VEIs site or in the instructions. This would be an unexpected benefit fo sho. As I noted before, this could almost be its own thread. Some pics: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182 The silver aluminum VEI housings are stupendously beefy and held together with roll pins. I'm going to have to either drive the roll pins into the body of the gauge (where the electronics live) to gut them, cut them in half (lol) or drill out the roll pins. I'm still not 100% sure how I'm going to do this, its tough trying to figure out how to destroy a $90 gauge. :noes: I'm such a loser... I bought these on 3/24/12 and I still haven't gotten around to doing anything with them :loser: The MTX-L is a placeholder for the MS3 until I swap over to the LC-1 and the VEI hardware |
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie
(Post 1114037)
Amazon does diyautotune stuff. Ordered to the door 2 days for my GM AIT
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hahaha loving the thread title
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The car looks clean despite the mismatched body parts. Gonna get them paint matched?
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1114041)
hahaha loving the thread title
Well, as inconspicuous as something metallic orange can possibly be. :rofl:
Originally Posted by Fireindc
(Post 1114043)
The car looks clean despite the mismatched body parts. Gonna get them paint matched?
Solid motivator will be getting another DD so I can loose this thing to wrenching/tuning and paint for a couple months. My intent is to have things buttoned up by Miatas @ MRLS this year. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1114038)
...
So what I've got... D1-BOP-WBA-MO dual display, boost in psi & wideband in AFR, orange display (LC1 to support) D1-IAF-WTF-MO dual display, IAT in F & water temp in F, orange display D1-OPP-OTF-MO dual display, Oil pressure in psi & oil temp in F, orange display ... I've been using that dual oil temp/press one already and I'm seriously considering adding the dual water/in-air temp as well (since I'm about to lose my SG2). The thing I like about them is that, besides obvious compactness, is they have programmable warning capability in case you miss a temp spike in progress. Have you had any trouble with the senders for the oil at all? Both of mine acted up within 6 months or so of being installed and were replaced under warranty; hoping that was just a fluke. |
Y u no buy beater civic already??
The nose ... my god ... I just got chills. It makes the horror go away or it gets the Rotrex again ! |
It still has the Rotrex, you wanna buy a spare? That'll definitely cover the cost of paint :rofl:
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Nice! I'm curious to hear your impressions of MS3 over MS2. Your old MS2 is still running strong and reliable :)
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I spent all afternoon ripping my garage apart looking for that stupid IAT and never did find it. I did find a bunch of other crap I forgot I had, so that was nice.
Originally Posted by good2go
(Post 1114053)
Very nice.
I've been using that dual oil temp/press one already and I'm seriously considering adding the dual water/in-air temp as well (since I'm about to lose my SG2). The thing I like about them is that, besides obvious compactness, is they have programmable warning capability in case you miss a temp spike in progress. Have you had any trouble with the senders for the oil at all? Both of mine acted up within 6 months or so of being installed and were replaced under warranty; hoping that was just a fluke. In all honestly I have been truly tempted to sell these VEI units off and buy the MTX-D gauges from Innovate to match my MTX-L, then use those to build up my cluster. Ungh. My project ADD is fucking terrible and makes me do stupid things like this. I'm trying my best to work with what I have rather than buying more stuff. It's a vicious cycle.
Originally Posted by acedeuce802
(Post 1114072)
Nice! I'm curious to hear your impressions of MS3 over MS2. Your old MS2 is still running strong and reliable :)
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My wife was away for the day so I decided to do a little baking
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395590311 Meticulously masked, trimmed with a razorblade and sprayed with . https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395590311 After the paint dried, removed the tape and loaded up the oven... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395590311 6 house later and hopefully these will stay beautiful forever. 18psi inspired me to do this and watching Jeffbucc has shamed me into not cutting corners. This is the first time I've bothered to paint underhood parts for a project and honestly, it feels good :) |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1114074)
...
I need to find instructions for these gauges, its been forever since I looked into the function sets. To the point where I didn't realize you could set alarms (flashing?) on them. :facepalm: ... http://www.veisystems.com/old/docs/I...-IAF-WTF-M.pdf http://www.veisystems.com/old/docs/I...-OPP-OTF-M.pdf |
Beautiful. Valve cover to come?
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Originally Posted by good2go
(Post 1114149)
http://www.veisystems.com/old/docs/I...-BOP-WBA-M.pdf
http://www.veisystems.com/old/docs/I...-IAF-WTF-M.pdf http://www.veisystems.com/old/docs/I...-OPP-OTF-M.pdf |
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1114153)
Beautiful. Valve cover to come?
I pulled out the donor valve cover and started cleaning it up. I popped out the PCV grommit and some unexpected weird brown shit came out. In a fit of OCD I removed the baffles and discovered this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395595167 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395595167 I don't know what this is exactly. Its got to be some sort of rust but I have no idea where it came from. The baffles are not rusty so it must have come from the block... sitting upside down in a puddle? I got the cover from someone here on the forum a while back so I have no idea of its history. Whatever the shit is, BrakeCleen does not remove it effectively, nor does acetone. I've got a can of aircraft stripper and a box of Q-Tips to try next. I really wish I had access to a media blaster of some sort so I could blast strip the entire underside of this cover and start from scratch. So the valve cover is going to take a while. Either way I sure am glad I pulled the baffles out. |
There's a GM ait sitting in my tool box... Shoulda said something on Friday :(
Also winchester stocks them for future reference :) |
Originally Posted by gesso
(Post 1114201)
There's a GM ait sitting in my tool box... Shoulda said something on Friday :(
Also winchester stocks them for future reference :) If the Aircraft Stripper does not work, do you think Bill would let us use his media blaster? :naughty: |
I like.
Dat nose is dildos. Can you link directly to Hussy's quote showing his gauges? I wanna know what that red digital thing he has is. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1114269)
...
Can you link directly to Hussy's quote showing his gauges? I wanna know what that red digital thing he has is. |
I'm aware that's how it works. No arrows showing for me in that post.
Mobile format thing, maybe? |
Looking great man.
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1114291)
I'm aware that's how it works. No arrows showing for me in that post.
Mobile format thing, maybe? post #9 https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...98/#post787000 |
stupid double post
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1114269)
I like.
Dat nose is dildos. Can you link directly to Hussy's quote showing his gauges? I wanna know what that red digital thing he has is. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1395635869 I believe that is a Racepak G2X unless I'm completely mistaken. |
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You should turn it into a hoodrat "theme car."
GOLDFISH https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1395669017 |
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Somebody slam that and photoshop some 6ULs on it.
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Just stopping by to see where all the parts I sell you go.
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Originally Posted by Midtenn
(Post 1114533)
Just stopping by to see where all the parts I sell you go.
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I started stripping down my spare ignition/injection harness last night to install proper injector connectors. I have adapters so I can keep my stock harness stock, but I want something cleaner in the end.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395937304 Completely stock, untouched harness. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395937304 Pile of factory tape and loom and damn this crap is disgusting. The engine this came off of must have been leaking around the valve cover for a long, long time. I actually ended up separating each wire from the harness and wiping them down individually to clean off all the oil and grime. Gahhhh! In pulling this apart I realized that the entire harness must have been wrapped by hand by dudes in Japan. Just the way the tape was applied there was no way it could have been done by machine. That's a lot of effort by a lot of people when you consider how may of these cars were built. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1395937304 Today I learned: The ignition and injection harnesses are completely separate inside the factory loom, and the grounds underneath the throttle body are for the ignition, not the injection. The additional grounds that people keep recommending in the COPs thread may be somewhat superfluous, at least on the NB1. When reassembling all this stuff I'll be separating the harnesses to make things more modular. In theory it'll be easier to troubleshoot and easier to swap harnesses if I want to change things up. My wiring loom should also end up looking far cleaner than what came from the factory. |
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie
(Post 1114037)
Amazon does diyautotune stuff. Ordered to the door 2 days for my GM AIT
I also ordered the DIYAutoTune EBC while I was there, because :burncash: |
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Got my IAT and EBC today from DIY! Maybe MS3 this weekend?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1396042470 Well, maybe Sunday if I'm feeling ambitious but the ground is going to be wet, and everything is going to be cold :vash: That's right bitches, I'm complaining about 61° :dealwithit: |
While I was stripping the harnesses for my VVT swap I too noticed they'd have to be hand wrapped to get into some of the junctions the way they did. Looking good so far.
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Alright, tomorrow is first stab at injectors + WB02 + MS3. Sorting things out NA then moving onto the fun stuff in a couple weeks. I've got a couple hours worth of work to do tomorrow morning, but the rest of the weekend is completely free. Time to knock this out and actually make some progress for once! :vash2:
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its easy peasy with pump gas
should be cake |
I'm not sure you understand my unique talent for completely screwing up simple things ;)
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I expect hourly fail updates...
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Don't get me started.
I've hit a snag, something completely unexpected. I'm hoping Radio Shack has what I need or that I can scrounge it off something at the office. :facepalm: |
Ok, so I ended up in the office this morning and lost a solid 1/2 day on the car. Le sigh. When the wife found out I was heading in rather than working on the car she said, and I quote:
Originally Posted by wife
The universe really does not want you to get your megasquirt installed, does it?
:hahano: I started by sticking the IAT in the airbox at the factory location. I snipped off the factory connector and built myself a set of adapter pigtail harnesses with weatherpack connectors should I ever need to go back to stock (and I will.) Its loomed up and sanitary because I've decided I'm done with shitty looking wiring. I also had to extend all the wires for the MTX-L about 18" so they could actually reach the MS3, and then solder them all to the correct leads on the DB37 connector. I took my time and loomed up everything so that its pretty and robust. Unfortunately I don't have the actual sensor installed yet, I'll get to that tomorrow. The MS3 is mounted in factory location with a set of simple brackets I bent out of 1/8" x 1" aluminum strap that I redesigned about 6 times. Its super solid and I'm super happy. I hooked the battery back up and got the MTX-L to display stuff, so at least I know the MS3 is passing power to it. USB is running up under the center console so accessing the cables shouldn't be a nightmare like it was with my DIYPNP. Live and learn I guess. I discovered that more than 1 of my Toyota COPs is dead so I had to go back to the stock coil. I'm not thrilled about this but I'll live. I just want this thing running. Tomorrow:
I'm disappointed that's all I got done today, but at least its progress. |
Success!
The engine caught after about 5-6 rotations of the crank, stumbled for a half second and then settled into a solid 2500~ish RPM idle @ 11.5AFR and timing somewhere in the 25~27° range. God DAMN it feels good to get it running after a weekend of constant interruptions! Timing light showed perfect 10° when locked at 10 in the software, so I'm not going to worry about that at all. Set it back to table, save, powercycle, move on. Its so nice when something just works. Idle obviously needs some work but I need to work through that and get it back to something approaching normal. I did this once before on my DIYPNP but I realized when I got into TunerStudio that its been 2 years since I looked at that stuff. Time to start reading again I guess ;) Most of the credit for this success is obviously Reverant's fault. He is obviously some sort of superhuman godlike being when it comes to base configurations on these things. I was expecting another clusterfuck of wailing and gnashing of teeth like I did with the DIYPNP but experienced no such drama. Any time anyone asks about a MS, I'm pointing them at that guy. Thanks again Rev! :bigtu: |
So apparently I don't know how to idle no gud.
I found Output Testmode -Idle Valve and ran the test. I get 5000rpm (lol) @67% on the top end and about 850~750rpm @ 23% on the bottom. These numbers seem to be sane compared to what I've seen here on MT. I drop these results under Startup/Idle > Closed Loop Idle Settings (becomes Closed Loop Idle Control once the window is open) and followed the guide on Nutz. I clear out the PID and start running up the I setting and nothing ever happens :( I can manually jack the idle down in testmode until the engine damn near stalls so I'm pretty sure this is not a vacuum leak. I remember I had this problem with the DIYPNP as well and I don't remember how I worked through it. I need to see if someone has a video or something out there for idle because I'm just not seeing something and its driving me bonkers. |
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Well, ders yer prablem...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1397155545 Obvious problem was obvious, too bad I'm oblivious. Reverant pointed me in the right direction when I couldn't see what was staring me in the face :o Once again Reverant is the man and deserves his reputation. Thanks Reverant! :bigtu: Now that I've adjusted this, CL Idle comes in and makes with the actually controlling things. It's a beautiful thing. Car runs great on the MS3 and the EV14s and I'm super duper happy that everything is cooperating. I'm not super duper happy with the TunerStudio & MTX-L wideband offset, but Rev says this is apparently unavoidable with my current configuration. VEAL'd the fuel table for about 1/2 hour yesterday and it ran great this morning on the way to the orifice. I need to do a bit more outside the "cruise" area because my cat is getting a workout running ARFs in the 9's at WOT jumping on the highway. I'm also going to try out the new WUE Autotune feature over the next couple mornings and see what happens. :party: |
Did someone say :party:
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1118765)
The MS3 is mounted in factory location with a set of simple brackets I bent out of 1/8" x 1" aluminum strap that I redesigned about 6 times. Its super solid and I'm super happy.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1120334)
I'm not super duper happy with the TunerStudio & MTX-L wideband offset, but Rev says this is apparently unavoidable with my current configuration.
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Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 1120376)
Did someone say :party:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1120377)
Please post pics / drawings of the mounts.
Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1120381)
Which are you believing, MS / TS or the MTX-L gauge. If the gauge, then the MS should be calibratable to read the same. At least it was with my LC-2 (running analog).
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Looking forward to the rest of your build EO2K!
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Thanks! I am too, but its going to take a few more weeks than expected. Got some well deserved vacation coming up that can't get here fast enough.
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Autotune: giving me an excuse to prove my car will do 62mph in 2nd @ redline :rofl:
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Post your second gear results in this thread for this moron:
NB 6-speed Real World top speed in 2nd gear? - MX-5 Miata Forum |
posting links and encouraging discussion on M.net is a ban-able offense
or should be or something anyways, do some VD pulls when you're done |
Man, its been so long since I visited M.net. That thread is reminding me why I don't even remember my password for that site anymore.
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Think of the links to there and CR as a "Best of," but in the worst kind of way. Entertainment purposes only.
ANYWAYS, How is the car feeling? Mucho awesome? What do you have your rpm limit set at? (Serious question) |
You can't handle my VD :giggle:
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1120745)
How is the car feeling? Mucho awesome? What do you have your rpm limit set at? (Serious question)
Red = 7k currently. 62mph@7k in 2nd as indicated by dash gauges. I wasn't datalogging or paying attention to the laptop as I was trying not to run over little old ladies who recoiled in horror at the sounds. Racing Beat header + FM 2.5" turbo exhaust sans turbo is a little loud. :dealwithit: Coldstart still needs work, plus I'm getting a wee little kickback right as it starts to catch. It's honestly probably not cold enough to get a solid autotune on the WUE thing. Californiaproblems. |
Every time someone says VD I think venereal disease :rofl: Downloaded Virtual Dyno, looks complicated :loser: I'll see if I can find some caveman instructions and maybe go flog my car at lunch and get a log.
Oh look, its already 12:30 :party: |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1120748)
You can't handle my VD :giggle:
Is mucho awesome-o :bigtu: Its also trying to make fireballs on downshifts and such :rofl: Red = 7k currently. 62mph@7k in 2nd as indicated by dash gauges. I wasn't datalogging or paying attention to the laptop as I was trying not to run over little old ladies who recoiled in horror at the sounds. Racing Beat header + FM 2.5" turbo exhaust sans turbo is a little loud. :dealwithit: Coldstart still needs work, plus I'm getting a wee little kickback right as it starts to catch. It's honestly probably not cold enough to get a solid autotune on the WUE thing. Californiaproblems. |
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