And people called me crazy for running a tap through each bolt hole on my chassis. So glad I went v band.

Its what I would have done if it was available at the time.

My intention last night was to try and get things together for final test fitting. I wanted to put a head on the block but I didn't want to jack up a new head gasket or destroy the deck surface. To protect said surface I used an old head gasket and made a block protector.

Attachment 238302

Then I bolted up my spare 6D head with a couple head bolts.

Attachment 238303

Head looks pretty good sitting on there. Good enough for test fitting and setting up oil drain/feed and coolant lines. Thats when things got fucky with the manifold stud and I decided to call it a night.

Why no head studs?

Why are there little weld blobs in the holes anyway? Was that intentional?

--Ian

For the same reason I made teh rainbow head gasket, its all test fit. I'm not using the 6D head, it was just there so I could bolt up the manifold and start mocking up my plumbing.

I have an oem head gasket, 4W head and ARP studs that will be used in final assembly.

Yes, intentional. Its for bolt retention. When you use a generic stud it will deform around the blob and lock itself in place. Apparently when you use an Inconel stud the unstoppable force meets the immovable object.

Apparently the immovable object won. ..

I managed to do that with a 6" open end. I could probably fuck up a wet dream if given the opportunity.

See? That's what's pissing me off. I honestly didn't feel like I did put that much force on it when it sheared. Frustrating as shit.

Don't be so hard on yourself man. Shit like this happens from time to time. It's just a trip to a competent machine shop.

Apparently a good way to remove inconel studs is to use something known as a metal disintegrator.

Sounds fake, but:

Valero Refining Hot Gas Expander | Bolt Removal, Metal Disintegration, Training | CBG Maintenance LLC

I wonder what a metal disintegrator actually is.

Looks like a fancy name for a Plunge EDM. Just designed to take out fasteners not make hard to machine shapes.

When I worked in the machine shop we had a guy who had a portable machine like that. He would come by and burn bolts out of things for us from time to time. He burned a broken stud out of the block on the bosses porsche and basically saved the block. Very cool piece of machinery. Unfortunately he preferred to do meth rather than run his little traveling EDM business so I don't exactly have contact information for him anymore.

Attachment 238268
MSM mixing manifold vs stock

Attachment 238269
Well, that's like eleventybillion times better. I has no A/C so I'm not concerned with compressor clearance.

Attachment 238270
The only problem now is this little guy. The MSM uses this nipple in the heater crossover as I think the return for coolant from the turbo? Its a little mangled and not exactly in a prime location due to the design of the manifold. I actually have another of these MSM crossover tubes but its somewhere in Gesso's garage. If that one does not work, I'll probably cut this one off and figure out how to close up the hole.

I should note that the MSM crossover tube is not compatible with the 4W or 6D mixing manifold, so these should probably be kept in sets.

Attachment 238271
Here is the other end of the heater line.

Attachment 238272
Absolutely great clearance with the downpipe and the #4 runner.

Attachment 238273
And here it is all quazi bolted together and jammed in the corner of my garage :p

If you look on the right side of the image, sticking out of the bottom of the turbo is my oil return nipple. Its setup for 5/8" ID Gates LOL hose but I'm concerned about clearance with the frame rail? That bastard is sticking WAY out there. I need to dig around and see if I took good pics of the return when it was in the car.

I'm seriously considering ordering a DEI lavatanium blanket for the turbo, or maybe send it to Swain. They come out to be about the same price, but one takes considerably more time than the other. Same quandary with the downpipe. I'd really like to see it coated, but wrap is probably just as effective.

Then there is the part of me that wants to do both :naughty:

I could just weld this one shut for you? It's one of the few parts in my garage that I know the location of.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1423631207

That was amazing, here I was typing out a text message to ask you about that :bowrofl:

You think you can weld that up? Because that would be awesome! But not that particular one seeing as its not molested. If I end up having you weld on one, it'll be this one. And I think its probably how this will play out. I really like that the 6D and MSM mixing manifolds both have MUCH larger coolant nipples on the front. Using that nipple for the return and a port on the reroute spacer on the back of the head as the feed, what could possibly go wrong?

Attachment 238267

Also, you can see the tip of the blue tape poking out from under the compressor housing in the pic, like the drain nipple is oriented straight down. It does not appear as though clearance is going to be an issue. :hs:

Why use hose barbs and clamps for the drain? One of my favorite upgrades for the turbo was the stainless -10 AN drain line.

Also -- time to put the oil pan on. :)

--Ian

Before you get a blanket for the turbo you should read the turbo blanket thread.

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...-burden-78139/

I believe the consensus was that blanket have the ability to retain too much heat and can cook the bearings. Sixshooter was the biggest defender of the blankets until he realized his own blanket was severely shortening the life of his turbo by cooking the bearing. He does not run a blanket anymore. I would hate for you to fuck up your efr

Turbo blankets are not bad if the person with the blanket it utilizing the water feed ports (I process alot of warrantys where people do not use those ports). If it is just an oil cooled turbo then definitely no blanket (shielding is ok). The biggest problem I see is if the blanket does keep in too much heat, that the plastic outer races on the Garrett ball bearings may become brittle, though that is no longer the case since they recently changed the bearings in all of the Ball Bearing turbos that utilize the 8mm bearing (GT25R,GT28,GT30,GT35) to a new bearing design with metal through out. With OP having an EFR, that would not be a concern of mine at all, the bearings are tough SOB's and he would like experience turbine wheel fatigue failure way before bearing oil coking. Race Teams use blankets and will go full seasons with 1 set of turbos (GTX/EFR) that exhibit way harsher temps then OP will.

Do you work for Garrett?

Sixshooter was using both water and oil cooling on his turbo. However, he was using a chinese turbo so the quality of the alloys and other components is not up to par with garret or EFR. I am merely making sure that E02K has all the facts as there were a lot of people who know what they are talking about in that thread mention that the blanket could cause premature wear over the life of a turbo. I wouldn't use race teams as an example since you even mentioned they might go ONE WHOLE SEASON with the same turbo. That is not the timeframe in which we are talking about for wear and tear due to a blanket. I doubt E02K plans to replace his turbo every season or at all unless absolutely necessary. Race Teams, however, can sacrifice long term reliability for short term performance gains because they will replace everything anyways

lol who even cares about how the hotside looks? I thought we were all just joking in Jeffs thread. I mean it will turn to dark/brown poopoo looking texture after a few days anyway.

Unless G is really concerned about heat retention.

Proper heat shields will do that, or you can has your hotside swain'd.


What I'm saying is: stop being silly like me and distracting yourself and delaying the project ( lulz )

I want to drive this thing already!!!! :party:
(you do know I'm gonna drive your car when its done, right?)

What I meant by the comparison is the fact that his turbo even with many years being on the vehicle will never see the harsh conditions that a race teams turbo will even in a 1 year period. The exhaust temps are extremely high and for extended amounts of time (24 hours of Lemans) versus what E02K is doing. Granted they do change their fluids and have way more sophisticated systems of measuring the conditions the turbos are going through.

90% of all turbocharger warranties are oil related claims weather it be oil coking, contamination, lack of oil, or oil drain issues. Only time I see oil coking on to the shaft and bearing system is no oil upon start up or the exhaust piston ring failed and allowed exhaust gases into the bearing housing (mainly journal bearing because they spin freely on the shaft and in the bearing housing) where as ball bearings have the outer race pinned and the inner race is pressed onto the shaft) so you don't really have to worry about wearing the shaft or bearings at all with oil coking on ball bearings. You are more likely to burn, wear and collapse the turbine side piston ring long before that.

When it comes to the chinese turbos, whether SixShooter had a turbo blanket or not, the deterioration of the bearings was inevitable. Comparing a China knock-off brand versus a major manufacturer is not a fair comparison. Alot of them use Aluminum coated bronze or really dirty bronze stock. Their tolerances are much more out of whack and their machining process is more crude. Not to say that the Aftermarket Chinese quality isn't improving, because it is and fast but they still don't have the same QC or material standards that Borgwarner, Garrett, IHI ect have.

I agree with 18PSI that a heat shield will be sufficient and just have fun with it.

No I don't work for Garrett, I work with them at trade shows, SEMA, ADS, Automechanika ect same with other vendors. But I have more direct access to companies like Garrett than the average person you could say. Pic for proof.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1423668782

Oo! Drama! :drama:

But seriously, thanks all for the commentary. I'll read it in more detail and explore the linked threads when I'm not out in the middle of this god forsaken Arizona desert on my cell phone. I can't even get the images to load out here :giggle:

Of course you will get to drive it, I assumed that would be part of the process after I get you to tune it :party:

:D Exxxxxcelllllent

If we all make it to MRLS again, I hope all our cars are done and perfected by then. Be fun to swap cars for a while. I had fun in Ed's.

The only reason I'd want to run a turbo blanket is it takes up less space in the engine bay. Was annoying to remove the FM heat shield every time I need to get in that area.

*edit* I better have my damn tow setup figured out by then. That drive annihilated me.

GreddyGalant has a MSM cross over pipe as well, you know, in case you need a third.

We opted to flip his, gets rid of that damn cross over pipe being heated up constantly by the turbo manifold.

See his thread, he wins for "most modified MSM mixing manifold".

The point to the AN fitting line is not to hold pressure, it's to have a piece that can be removed and reinstalled without requiring a knife. Once a push-on hose has been sitting underneath the turbo for a few thousand miles it is not coming off by pulling. It doesn't need to be stainless, that's just the easiest stuff to build your own lines with.

--Ian

I won't be going to MRLS this year, but I'll be there next year. Gotta be an every-other-year thing for me.

I'll look into it, the clamps and hose was because I already had everything sitting here left over from one of the others turbos I was playing with. The EFR actually has a tapped 5/8" NPT port on the bottom, along with the 2 bolt flange? I'll look it up.

AN would be super easy but I hate how stainless cuts through everything. I'll take a look at BatINC and see if they have some sort of line material that might be appropriate in black. I really don't dig the blue and red fittings.
It needs more holes first.
We were! or at least I was. I thought I was anyway.
It "shouldn't" because its a giant mass of cast stainless, but I guess we'll see.
If I don't have a turbo in my car by October I'm dousing the whole car in vodka and lighting it on fire.
I actually had an FM2 heatshield and cold air box. Unfortunately neither of them would fit with the this combination.

The manifold and downpipe combo are amazing, but there are A LOT of very "thermally expressive" parts mounted very high up in the engine bay. Of immediate concern is the master cylinder, because that keeps me from dying. Thermal control is something I will have to address. I'm just not sure what that solution will look like at this time.
14 hours straight in what almost amounts to as a racecar will do that to you. :giggle:
Yup, if I need another, I know where to look. Thanks Curly :bigtu:
Is heating the tube really that big a deal? I mean, yeah its adding heat back into the motor, but its coming from the heater core so it should be much cooler already? I know the flipped manifold works, but it requires a lot of additional work and uglies things up with additional hoses and such.
My thoughts exactly. It would be done for convenience, and it would most likely not be stainless.
That's completely understandable, I know it was quite a haul for you as well. It was still great meeting everyone though!

There really isn't much under the turbo for it to cut into, especially if you drill the pan in the spot between the subframe and motor mount so that the drain hose goes straight down. The blue and red fittings are also almost entirely hidden and you can't really see them unless you crawl under the car.

--Ian

your multi-quote skills are exquisite my good sir

good day

I gotcha, I just don't like the SS stuff. :dunno: I'll look into an AN solution though, it looks like Soviet did the same in his thread.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1423764678

Status on the broken stud. I looked through the thread and didn't see a resolution. Anyone suggest welding another bolt to it and backing it out?

Quoted for follow-through

I think he was just going to take it to a machine shop. Otherwise he would just break it more from what I've heard about his skills.

No resolution as of yet.

I was in Arizona for a couple of days this week so no time to screw with things. I'll be back there again on Monday so that isn't exactly helping my timeline. I've struck out up to now as the local redneck machine shops scare me. I've made contact with a place in the bay area that has an EDM, we are still exchanging messages.

I believe I mentioned this earlier. I'm going to try to convince Gesso to take a crack at it with his TIG before I mail it somewhere for EDM work. Its already fucked, it'll be pretty hard to fuck it up any worse. Not that I think he'll make it worse, but you get the idea.
kek. Like I said before, I know exactly how to fix this, and I have the skills to do so. If I tried it with my current toolset I would just trash it even further. I know my limits and I know not to fuck with it at this point. So :fawk: ;) :rofl:

I was referring to your skills at inexplicably breaking things, not your actual machining skills :)

Doable just make sure you use the right filler rod. Inconel 625 works IIRC for steel to Inconel.

Ohh, I gotcha. Yeah, I'm good at finding interesting and unique ways of breaking things.

I'll have to talk to Gesso and see if he has access to rods he thinks will work. The USAF seems to think he can weld F16s back together so this should be cake :fael:

As I'm waiting for parts again I figured I'd do something a little CR while I have time.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1423870471

$25 shipped wasn't so bad. Lets see if I can ruin these things too. :hahano:

Why did you buy butt plugs from CR?

Who says I bought them from CR? Ebay is the bestest place for buttplugs, I speak from expierence. :naughty:

Actually I want to get a set of those too. I almost never have passengers and feel like the AC is wasted in the summer by having the passenger vents open all the time.

Eclipse 3rd gen right?

Yep, 3rd gen eclipse, something like 2000~2005 non turbo IIRC. Both mazdaroadster.net and CR have walkthroughs with all the details.

Rike dis: http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread....Vents-in-an-NB

There are other guides in other places with details about how to make them fit better and rotate easier, but its a lot more work. I have droopy vents so I figured this might be a fun little "low impact" project.

Well, 99mx5 just made 375/319 @ 22~23psi on essentially the same setup I have in the garage. Same manifold, 6258, 3" exhaust, 650cc injectors and 255lph fuel pump, all on the stock non referenced, non return NB fuel system. I guess I've overcomplicated my fuel system a bit :bang:

Sounds like I have a Fuelab FPR to sell off right about now :party:

We should talk....

Sure, I'll shoot you a PM. There will be parts to go with it, as I'm going to have a bunch of surplus fittings to go with it as well.

and "parts" from Monk you should include too :giggle:

The package is sitting on my desk at the office, I'l be in Arizona again this next week so I'll have to wait. I'm super afraid of it now :rofl:

I'm signed up for Miatas @ MRLS in October! Run group C1 Sat and C on Sun. One of these days I should probably move up to B, but with all the changes I've made to the car and my lack of track time for the last year or so, I just don't have the confidence at this point. :loser:

I'm going to try to sneak in some more trackdays between now an October, so we'll see how things go.

I think we need to make sure to do the MT.net wave whenever we pass another forum member.

I was going to say "I'll do it when I pass you" but you won't be NA again this year so I doubt that will happen :giggle:

I did a thing today!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1424565475
Out with the old vents

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1424565475
in with the new vents!

My dash ducting has a serious case of atherosclerosis. When/if I ever get my dash pulled out, the duct work is getting a serious angioplasty.

They don't sit "into" the dash like I've seen in a lot of the other NB pics sprinkled around the internet. I feel like you need to take a bunch of material off the outer diameter of the bezel to get them to drop in like the stock ones do. Also, mine are "clicked in" and yet they still rotate, but its pretty stiff. Its kinda a "set it and forget it" thing so I won't be playing with them much. Hopefully my passengers don't break them.

I will say that these things flow a TON more air than the stock vents. If you close a couple of them and put the blower on 2 its almost too much air to be blowing anywhere near your face. Combined with the removal of my under dash A/C core, its like a damn typhoon coming out of the vents. I've got shit shooting out of them things like I ain't never seen. Its pretty cool actually :)

I've got a bunch of stuff on the docket for tomorrow, depending on how things work out.

Looks good!

so good that I just ordered a set :)

One of you homos wanna send me one of your old eyeball vents? I've got one missing.

Sure, PM me your address and I'll mail it out eventually :bigtu:

I went and visited with Gesso today and we played with the Exocet for a while, made some serious progress. After that, we decided to take a crack at my sheared off stud.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1424671075
Digging through Gesso's toolbox of random welding stuff he found this. I'll let you look that one up.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1424671075
He used some magical electrical machine to attach a nut to the stud and...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1424671075
Presto! He made a bolt!

Its actually kind of amazing how badly mangled those threads are. I'm surprised I managed to get it as far as I did. I'll be re-tapping that before another stud goes in. Totally worth the drive :D

Wool! Nice work, and no need for a machine shop. Awesome.

If you reduce the OD of the Eclipse vents, they fit much better (imho).

Like this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1424683531

--Ferdi

Question is, how did you reduce the od? lathe?

Aerospace grade Nickel super alloy "718"?

Amirite?

What does he need small diameter 718 for? Also $$$...

I've been wanting to do that dash vent mod for a while. Looks great!

It was at 19 PSI. Thanks to Revenant I was able to correctly convert kPa to psig.

No. Just cut off the protrusions on the body. A file or utility knife will do.