Hoping to install frame rails tomorrow afternoon/evening and get the MAP sensor installed.

From what I understand of the MAP sensor install, I need to run a wire to a 0-5V analogue to the expander board here input 23 (EXT_MAP) and then run a ground to any of the engine grounds.
Where would I pull a 5V source from in the bay? I know the TPS is one, but is there anything else?

https://trubokitty.com/assets/images/ms3x_expander.png

From the manual:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dbea44ff8c.jpg

So pull voltage off TPS (C), send analog input to EXT MAP (B to 23 on DB37), and sensor ground to an engine ground or other open ground somewhere, yes? The MS also has a 5V reference which I'm guessing I could use as the voltage source. That's MS 26 (gray) listed on trubokitty, but 26 in the diagram above shows tacho? Am I looking at the wrong connector?

the TPS VREF wire goes back directly to MS 26...

what you need to find is another wire that goes back to the ecu harness through the oe wires so you dont have to run any new wires and just add one to the harness. like purge solenoid, or the fuel rail solenoid, or any of the other spare ones you can find...

I have the 'boost sensor' in the engine bay. With the Squaretop, I also have the Vics solenoid free. Probably another thing or two free in there too.

Why do you insist on doing things the hard way? Brain and I both told you to put it near the ecu. You already have a vacuum line and all of the wiring there.

There are two 37 pin connectors on your MS3x. Any pins labeled MS-* are pins on the main MS connector. Pins labeled X-* are on the expansion board connector. The pic you posted is for the expansion connector. X-26 is tach. MS-26 is the 5v referance.

either way it's a 5v, ground, and signal; not incredibly complicated here.

easiest in bay would be the boost sensor since it's 5v, ground, and signal back to the ecu. problem is the MS harness isn't tapped into it so a new wire would have to be soldered on both sides.

the vics solenoid is 12v so the only ease there would be the fact that all you gotta do is move a wire in the expander connector, but youd have to still tap into a ground and 5v. so not really clean.

Quick survey question :

All else equal what would you expect from a Squaretop vs the Vics manifold?

2871 at ~2.5bar.

hard to say, but the flattop will have much better topend.

I'm asking because I have data and want to see what others think before posting the VD plots. Same tune, same roads, etc. Only difference was that it was cooler out when the ST was tested.

That said, I'm looking into booking dyno time to get some 'real' numbers.

just post it and tell us.

id except something like this:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8d02f00e10.png

How much time do you spend at 3-6K? How much time do you spend at 6-7K? That seems to be the major deciding factor. I went for VICS cuz I'm desperate for mid range torques.

I like data tho. Dyno & share.

VICS + VVT was quite nice.

Few VD runs:
1) 10-18-18 runs from last night with squaretop. 3 runs all in the same ballpark so pretty repeatable. Cool.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1750736ee0.jpg

2) Best run with the VICS manifold.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...25975a77ad.jpg

3) This is just to show that runs are really reproducible here. This is VICS with lower boost. I think this was 20 psi?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fcaf6524d1.jpg

4) VICS vs ST.
10-18-18 dates are squaretop. 10-01-18 date is VICS. I think the blip in the orange graph is an artifact which is something that vlad had said about graph 2 as well. It looks like things were a bit better around 5500 ish for the squaretop, but the VICS caught up in the higher revs. I'm not sure what to make of it. Some of the VICS stuff looks like it's happening right after the crossover point where the solenoid kicks in.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that the VICS (light green) slope change above 6k is related to a bit of a change in the road? I can double check and see if I have 2 logs for VICS taken a few minutes apart which would suggest that I did one in each direction on that road. It's possible that the other one would have dipped down at a similar slope and ended up in the 230-240 range similar to graph 3 just shifted up 30 hp.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...091f76e2bb.jpg

Thoughts? I know that the data isn't perfect, but it controlled for quite a few things. The ST was actually a bit of a bitch to swap over to so I don't really want to subject myself to an A-B test.
I can post logs and the tune later if anyone's interested in that.

There's 300 rpm difference between the best vics vs ST. But still surprisingly very close. You might have reached the point of intake efficiency. Anyone else ever posted this kind of test with this amount of power?
Very good data there, Rish.

pretty much exactly what i drew.

He has found a bottleneck for flow. It is the cams and head. He can now work those or add boost.

It's sort of telling that it is now lean above 4k. Fuel added and maps re-binned. Help me talk him into adding more pressure!

That's what I was thinking... except I see gains with the ST at lower rpm haha. Given higher power level and no head work, it looks like I hit diminishing marginal returns pretty quickly and the bottleneck shifted from the IM to the head. This is not really what I was expecting.

I'm running the ebay S2 TB clone. Both manifolds were ported a bit to match the opening and get rid of a few steps that were easily reachable. There's definitely a huge step in the VICS manifold that definitely doesn't help things. It doesn't look that remarkable till you compare both next to each other.

What did A/B look like when comparing VICS on vs off?

I'm confused by "limited by head flow" and then "need to turn up boost" comment. if you're flow limited, you won't gain with more boost, that's the whole premise of choking. If you do, then you're not limited in that respect.
I also don't understand leaning out past 4k but not picking up power except in one spot being indicative of more flow everywhere. I think you're basically near the limit of this whole setup on pump gas, not just head.

Maybe I'm missing something

Eh, i wrote that in bad after waking up. Probably not the best time to brain. I agree i think he is close to the limit on pump, but he probably has some more in it until 25 psi or so.

Posting one of the VICS and one of the ST logs. Also posting the tune if anyone has any thoughts.

I like what I'm seeing from the knock sensor. I could probably get away with a little more timing if it's reading things correctly. It's pretty aggressive already though.
Does anyone have any suggestions for the VVT? I'm running what I think are the base settings, but if you look at the log, it's oscillating quite a bit.


I didn't do that test. Can you do that and post a log so we can see the difference it makes? I don't recall seeing any plots of that recently.