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So I finally installed the basemap and set base timing. It was a little tricky because I am not sure of the timing mark. But I think I got it dialed. The car starts right up and runs at 1200 rpms, after warm up it drops to about 850 rpm. Seems about right.
The first thing I noticed was there is definitely smoke coming from the wideband bung. Ive attributed this to all of the PB blaster I used to get the narrow band sensor out. The smoke is less the longer its run. Ive read several postings that say its important to have the wideband sensor 18" from the turbo, but Ive also read its ok to have the wideband in the stock location if NA. Anyone have insight on this.
Also I am trying to run the IAT in the airbox post filter pre maf (as in above pictures), my concern is that I am not sure how the MAF works. I thought its a passive mechanism where the flapper is pushed out of the way by air flow, so I dont need to do any mechanical bracing (holding the flapper open). Anyone confirm this?
Running the wideband in the stock bung on the stock exhaust manifold is fine to get started. I put the bung on the actual DP down towards the end just to make routing the cable up through the shifter console much easier.
Smoke out of the bung is a bit weird. It is normal for some smoke after handling that stuff as the oils from your hand burns off. It should go away after 10-20 minutes if even that long,
Im running a new wideband (in narrow mode for stock ECU) on the stock exhaust and it smoked for about a day... I noticed when installing it that it had some sort grease on the threads and just figured it was from that.
Smoke is normal until you get things good and hot.
Yeah, the AFM on 1.6s just has a flapper door that will uh... Flap around. It has an IAT built in as well, you can just read off that, or like, tape the GM IAT inside the filter box somewhere pre filter. That's good enough for learning to tune.
Heck, I still haven't actually tuned my MAT compensation table. I have the closed loop EGO correction tuned well enough it handles it and I did all my fuel tuning on very cold days, so it goes rich anyway on hotter days.
For tuning fuel and such at first you wanto to zero out the MAT curve anyway so it isn't making corrections.
So the smoking stopped and it was idling fine. I let it warm, then drove around at low load and tried some autotune. It started staying in the right AFMs, everything is feeling good. I figured that was a good start and wanted to tune my idle before I really started going through my VE table. At the end of my first Autotuning session I noticed my idel went way down to 300-400rpm.
I am thinking my IAC valve isnt open enough after warm up and I just need to go through and properly adjust the idel and WUE stuff. (shout out to OGpedxing videos and good stickies).
Since I think things are going well I went to install my kia VTPS and Sadfab printed bracket. Like an idiot I left the throttle body on while installing, making the easiest install of this whole kit a little harder. So I have the bracket and VTPS on and I am not sure which way to rotate the sensor and Bracket. The bracket like the OEM has a groove to be able to adjust but I am not sure how much. I set in the middle of the bracket groove and pulled the throttle cable and watch the sensor move. I figured I didnt want the sensor in the way of the throttle's range of motion. I tightened it there and thought I'll just see what it comes up as I calibrate it in tunerstudio.
Opened the MS3PNP and to add the jumper for VTPS, couldnt find any extra jumper (would have been nice for DIY to throw a couple of them in there). bummer. So I ordered a few from amazon and some more Superlube bc I lost the little bit that came with the 640 injectors.
You are going to calibrate the TPS anyway, so just make sure it isn't runningnoutnof range and you are good.
Getting the car to idle well takes some learning and practice. I have mine idling beautifully, open loop by making a little trough in the timing map for it and adjusting the fuling to richen up a bit either side of where I want it. Stays between 800 and 1000 whatever load I put on it. I call that good enough. This also means it is a lot harder to stall creeping along becsuse it really increases torqur a lot as it gets dragged below 750rpm.
You are going to calibrate the TPS anyway, so just make sure it isn't runningnoutnof range and you are good.
Getting the car to idle well takes some learning and practice. I have mine idling beautifully, open loop by making a little trough in the timing map for it and adjusting the fuling to richen up a bit either side of where I want it. Stays between 800 and 1000 whatever load I put on it. I call that good enough. This also means it is a lot harder to stall creeping along becsuse it really increases torqur a lot as it gets dragged below 750rpm.
If I am going to run Bigger injectors, can I just install those prior to idle tuning or is it better to tune stock injectors then swap and retune. I guess I am impatient bc I don't like driving a truck as my daily.
So I got the jumpers for the TPS. 2.54 mm are the ones you want to order. I have 29 extras if anyone needs one. The install of the jumper was easy enough. I looked for the Fan control jumper and my MS3 PRO PNP already had one in place. Saweet. I needed this because I deleted my thermal switch with my Qmax reroute. The pre-inserted values are fans on at 225 F and off at 220F. I want to test the MS fan control but even after some driving my cars temps dont go above 200. I guess my new radiator and reroute seems to be working great. Not sure my fans are needed. Still need to wire them in parallel.
I installed the Kia TPS and SadFab bracket. When you go to Calibrate it the values for 0 throttle is a high value and the 100% throttle is a low value. Youre supposed to switch two wires (by splicing), but I found a MT thread that says TS will calibrate with inverted values. I accepted the values and the throttle looked good. TRULY PLUG and PLAY.
More autotuning today and the car feels pretty responsive. I am still open loop idel right now. I tried adding 2-3 degrees of timing below my idle to create a valley in my timing table for where I want the car to idle. My car is ideling at 780 ish pretty well. My problem is that if I stab the throttle the RPMs dip a couple hundred rpms and then rises. If I roll into the throttle it wont dip. My instinct is that the car needs to be idling higher so that my rpms wont take a dive.
I am still looking for information on how to increase your idle RPM in open loop.
Iam still running on stock injectors.
Its very drivable right now. Just not dialed like a stock tune. The VE table has been autotuned and I still need to go in and smooth it out.
Then I am trying to figure out how dialed I should be before new injectors.
What should the advance be for getting the 1.6 to idel. DIYs idel tuning tips is to have 16 for idel and 300 rpms below that be 20? this should keep me in the 850 rpms open loop but I am staying about 780.
If you have not already check out the Newb Friendy MS Tuning Guide. for more info on tuning. It is my go to recommendation for all my customers to get their head wrapped around tuning.
Lars, Ive watched each a few times. And its helped, it appears more of a closed loop idel tuning which is a little different. Which probably where I need to go to get my idle dialed.
Its basically a base tune from DIY.
Ive watched some videos from Andy whittle and OGpedxing. My thought process was to dial in the open loop idel at 850rpm via the timing at 30kpa. Then adjust the VE table at the same kpa and rpms to keep it mid 13 AFR (which is where Ive read the 1.6 is happiest). Everything Ive read says to have a stable idle prior to going to closed loop PID. I cant seem to raise the RPMs via timing (despite what Ive read that increase in timing increase RPMs). The idle seems to be difficult to change from 790-800 rpms. I have not adjusted the idel screw and I was idling at 850 rpms prior to MS. Most recommendations have been not to change it anything mechanically.
I really havent messed the VE idle table, I just adjusted the master VE table.
So I took a break from my build to finish renovating my home. Long story short we are expecting our first child in Jan and only have 1 bathroom. So I am finishing the bathrooms and took a break from tuning. In the meantime found a good deal on this 99 with Hardtop and 74k miles. I was going to sell after I am done with NA build, but then Kmiata anounced the K24Z3. So now I am going to finish the Na and put a K24Z3 into this green babe. Then I will put the BP4W into the NA, and hopefully I can snag a cast manifold from lars for a 1.8
WE HAVE a RED TURBO car.
SO, I have everything hooked up and running. I took the car out for some easy running. When I started to push it I felt that despite turbo spool noise the car wouldn't go anywhere. It turns out at 3.5k-4k my clutch started slipping. I thought I could run the stock clutch alot longer that that. 6 -8 psi and i am already slipping the clutch. Damn. I already have the supermiata kit and stock 1.8 flywheel. Will be installing this Wed.
Some things I noted:
1. I have the trumpet on the blow off valve and it is really loud. I havent added any washers. My idle seems fine so I dont believe I need to adjust it. But its way louder than any other noise my car makes.
2. My car has a hard time starting. I first noticed it when I installed the FLOW force 640 injectors. I messed with some values on and it will catch. I think I am not getting enough fuel, because the spark plugs are bone dry. I am also running stock plugs. Although I have MT.turbo recommended plugs ready to go.
3. Also, I run the car to temp and find that the car is hard to start after warm. Again I feel like I need more fuel, due to checking spark and dry plugs. So I began adjusting the priming and cranking pulse for start up. I slowly adjusted the numbers until the engine would catch. Now its a little easier to start.
4. Idle-on closed loop idle my initial values had to be increase with the turbo set up installed, without adjustment my idle would drop to 200 rpm after a high rev. When I have a good initial value for temperature (with a car in neutral) it always feels like not enough to catch the idle while actually driving (clutch fully depressed).
5. The 949 coolant reroute is really effective. My temps havent gone above 190 yet.
Overall I am surprised at How well the car runs from bolting the parts on to driving the next day.
I still have to remind myself that an oil cooled turbo needs to idle for a few minutes before you turn the car off.
Will be posting videos when I can!
Since my last post I have installed a New Supermiata clutch, pressure plate, slave and master cylinder. Currently breaking in the car. MY 2 Cents Break in a new clutch prior to BOOSTING, its the most boring thing ever to drive a boosted car gently.
I also Added a FM frame rail and butterfly brace.
RATTLE BOX
THe biggest issue I have been dealing with is Noise and Vibration. 2 Sources. My down pipe against subframe and the engine, I attribute this to the increase in HP and 30 yr old engine mounts (120k on engine). I have ordered Competition mounts and will replace asap.
The second issue is the FM butterfly brace I got used. So I removed the Butterfly (middle section) brace and the quiet is much better.
I also noticed that my blow off valve was open at idle. I ended up adding 5 out of 6 washes to close the blow off valve at idle (which at this point is my only standard).
On a final note I havent pushed the system too much but I believe I have a boost leak at higher pressure. There is a distinct squeal after a certain amount of boost. I am going to re tighten the hose clamps and see.
Some relevant photos of hose clamps on rubber hangers. I used these to help with the vibration.They help but I think new engine mounts are needed more.
Where the midpipe v-band clamp and butterfly brace hit is where the exhaust would rattle at decel on the highway. So I just removed the middle section for now. I can see why FM new butterfly brace is better than this design because F*** working on that middle section. I am not sure I am even going to put it back in.
This area is where my down pipe is hitting the subframe. I would have grinded it however I was advised against it due to its proximity to the pinch weld. So My friend and I used a press to dimple it (dimpling the exhaust was our bright Idea prior to deciding the engine mounts needed to be changed).
04-08-2019, 10:29 PM
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