RWyatt's "It's takin forever" Build Thread
#362
Well...good news / bad news;
Good News:
Took the car to a local autocross event. Was signed up in the "Novice" group 'cause the car is new, and I haven't competed in over 2 years - better to be safe than sorry. The car ran impeccably, so much so that my instructor had nothing but good things to say about it ("forgiving handling", "amazing power", "like a big go-kart", "nothing but smiles"). My driving was less than stellar - I did cut 7 seconds off of my first run (from 61 sec, to 54 on a course where the best of the best were running 49 sec in "stock" classes). I was happy.
Bad News;
It was 90+ degrees and I felt like a wet noodle by the end of the day. What was worse though was that - on the way home - I was getting a rattling sound from the engine at moderate to heavy loads. There was no smoke, and no loss of power but I was terrified that we (the wife and I) would be on the side of the road, 50 miles from home. I kept the speeds low(ish) and the throttle light and we made it home without further drama (i.e. no loud BANGS, or billows of smoke). I stopped a few times to check the oil level, and it was steady - although I did put in a splash, just to be safe. The only thing that seemed out of sort was the rattle, and slightly higher oil temps (up from about 220, to around 250* during hiway cruising at 65).
This evening I'll open the valve cover and look for anything obvious (a broken spark plug insulator, an errant bolt bouncing around, a loose head nut). I'm going to trailer the car to the garage, where I do all my work, tomorrow and pull the engine to see what went wrong. I'm praying for something easy to fix, non-fatal and sub $100 to repair/replace.
Fingers are suitably crossed...
Good News:
Took the car to a local autocross event. Was signed up in the "Novice" group 'cause the car is new, and I haven't competed in over 2 years - better to be safe than sorry. The car ran impeccably, so much so that my instructor had nothing but good things to say about it ("forgiving handling", "amazing power", "like a big go-kart", "nothing but smiles"). My driving was less than stellar - I did cut 7 seconds off of my first run (from 61 sec, to 54 on a course where the best of the best were running 49 sec in "stock" classes). I was happy.
Bad News;
It was 90+ degrees and I felt like a wet noodle by the end of the day. What was worse though was that - on the way home - I was getting a rattling sound from the engine at moderate to heavy loads. There was no smoke, and no loss of power but I was terrified that we (the wife and I) would be on the side of the road, 50 miles from home. I kept the speeds low(ish) and the throttle light and we made it home without further drama (i.e. no loud BANGS, or billows of smoke). I stopped a few times to check the oil level, and it was steady - although I did put in a splash, just to be safe. The only thing that seemed out of sort was the rattle, and slightly higher oil temps (up from about 220, to around 250* during hiway cruising at 65).
This evening I'll open the valve cover and look for anything obvious (a broken spark plug insulator, an errant bolt bouncing around, a loose head nut). I'm going to trailer the car to the garage, where I do all my work, tomorrow and pull the engine to see what went wrong. I'm praying for something easy to fix, non-fatal and sub $100 to repair/replace.
Fingers are suitably crossed...
#363
Everything in the top end was copacetic. As soon as I opened up the bottom end, I knew what the problem was (the small pile of metal shavings in the filter screen sort of gave it away) - the big-end bearing on #1 was toast. There was also a nice coating of "metal paste" coming from the oil holes in the crank on #3 & #4. The bearing surfaces on all of the crank journals pass the "fingernail test", but they look grooved visually. I'm going to mic them tonight and see what the deal is - maybe they can be "rescued". Otherwise, I'm in the market for a new crankshaft (ouch).
PS - I watched the oil levels like a hawk, I installed a Bosch sensor (to get "real" linear oil pressure readings), I even have a separate sensor hooked to an idiot light for redundancy, and I have an oil temperature gauge - with the sender in the oil pan - to monitor that). With all of that I STILL spun a bearing!
During disassembly, I also noticed that the exhaust cam had "advanced" itself (remember, I managed to push the locating pin for the cam gear into the cam during the previous assembly - I tightened the **** out of that cam gear once I discovered my mistake, but I guess the forces on the gear can easily overcome the tightening torque...shear forces wins over compression every time). So I'm shopping for a new exhaust cam as well...any offers?!
In the mean-time this gives me some downtime to contemplate painting the car. My wife isn't very high on the green/blue/silver/black motif.
PS - I watched the oil levels like a hawk, I installed a Bosch sensor (to get "real" linear oil pressure readings), I even have a separate sensor hooked to an idiot light for redundancy, and I have an oil temperature gauge - with the sender in the oil pan - to monitor that). With all of that I STILL spun a bearing!
During disassembly, I also noticed that the exhaust cam had "advanced" itself (remember, I managed to push the locating pin for the cam gear into the cam during the previous assembly - I tightened the **** out of that cam gear once I discovered my mistake, but I guess the forces on the gear can easily overcome the tightening torque...shear forces wins over compression every time). So I'm shopping for a new exhaust cam as well...any offers?!
In the mean-time this gives me some downtime to contemplate painting the car. My wife isn't very high on the green/blue/silver/black motif.
#365
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Oh man, that's no bueno. :(
What do you believe might be the root cause for failure on #1? Contamination? Improper assembly? Man, that really really sucks.
But hey, if the engine is out it gives you a chance to repaint the engine compartment to match? Sorry, trying to find a positive.
What do you believe might be the root cause for failure on #1? Contamination? Improper assembly? Man, that really really sucks.
But hey, if the engine is out it gives you a chance to repaint the engine compartment to match? Sorry, trying to find a positive.
#366
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That sucks. I have a few minutes on my built motor. I won't know how well I built it until I get a chance to push it some more after I get my MS issues looked at.
Hopefully the crank is good.
Hopefully the crank is good.
#367
Oh man, that's no bueno. :(
What do you believe might be the root cause for failure on #1? Contamination? Improper assembly? Man, that really really sucks.
But hey, if the engine is out it gives you a chance to repaint the engine compartment to match? Sorry, trying to find a positive.
What do you believe might be the root cause for failure on #1? Contamination? Improper assembly? Man, that really really sucks.
But hey, if the engine is out it gives you a chance to repaint the engine compartment to match? Sorry, trying to find a positive.
So now what?
First on the agenda is "more monitoring", as in installation of a VDO OPG connected to the sending unit. That'll give me a better "read" than the highly damped OEM gauge can give.
I'm thinking of using Clevite bearings - both previous bearing failures were using ACL "race" bearings. Failure #1 was my fault for running w/ low oil level. But this failure is questionable. I plastigaged all of the bearings before final assembly (not a perfect measurement, but the reading was within spec). The block, head, and oil pump were hot-tanked before use, and I used assembly lube on all bearing surfaces. I checked all bolt tightening torque settings throughout the engine. Of course that doesn't mean that I didn't goof somewhere.
I'm also wondering if higher pressure from the oil pump (it's a BE pump) would help things.
After all of that, I was expecting the Churbo to be the weak link. Guess I was wrong.
I'll try again...
Yes, paint is on my mind. I'm going on vacation next week, so I'm SOL regarding car-work. But, when I get back, it'll be "All hands on deck" to get this b**ch running again.
#368
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I was nervous enough about my home build that I put in an oil pressure and temperature gauge. Still like a impatient kid I started the car up even though the pressure gauge wasn't working. Once I properly grounded them I could see tons of pressure but I should have confirmed first.
I'm running a BE pump and no oil squirters.
I couldn't find the ACL races in time so my guy used Clevite AL.
I kept hearing that Rotella T6 is the best ( I have bikes and ATV's so they love it too and I have 3 jugs at home still - BTW they want over $40 CND for 5L of that oil up here vs. your $22 US) but lately I hear reports that T6 isn't as applicable for a passenger car and it's rpm's. I'm still on break in oil but will probably go to Castrol or Pennzoil once I get some more research done.
I'm running a BE pump and no oil squirters.
I couldn't find the ACL races in time so my guy used Clevite AL.
I kept hearing that Rotella T6 is the best ( I have bikes and ATV's so they love it too and I have 3 jugs at home still - BTW they want over $40 CND for 5L of that oil up here vs. your $22 US) but lately I hear reports that T6 isn't as applicable for a passenger car and it's rpm's. I'm still on break in oil but will probably go to Castrol or Pennzoil once I get some more research done.
#369
I just ordered the Clevite AL bearings, along with a VDO OPG. I'm paranoid (now) about oil, so I'm going back to T6 (anybody want a case of Royal Purple?). I'm going to get some washers for the BE pump - I'll run 1 shim and see what the OPG reads (when the motor is back together again). I don't expect to have to go more than 2 shims.
Next steps;
- hot tank everything that had oil touching it
- touch up the crank journals (nothing extreme, just make sure the surfaces are straight and smooth)
- measure EVERYTHING! - fix anything that's wrong
- test-fit new parts
- check, and re-check
- assemble
- break-in
- change oil
- ENJOY!
If I toast another bearing set I'll garage the car, save up a bunch of money and put together a "Big Baller" motor so I can blow it up for real. No more spun bearings, I'll go for "picture windows" in the crankcase!!
Next steps;
- hot tank everything that had oil touching it
- touch up the crank journals (nothing extreme, just make sure the surfaces are straight and smooth)
- measure EVERYTHING! - fix anything that's wrong
- test-fit new parts
- check, and re-check
- assemble
- break-in
- change oil
- ENJOY!
If I toast another bearing set I'll garage the car, save up a bunch of money and put together a "Big Baller" motor so I can blow it up for real. No more spun bearings, I'll go for "picture windows" in the crankcase!!
#370
Opinion solicitation:
Right now, I'm not running an oil cooler but I think that this has contributed to my recent bearing failure. Also, using "modern" oil with low ZDDP content may be a contributing factor.
Am I just grasping at straws to cover up poor assembly on my part (I don't think so, but that's always a possibility)?
If I'm going to pop an additional $400 (or more) for an oil cooler setup, I want to make sure I'm not just throwing good money after bad.
Right now, I'm not running an oil cooler but I think that this has contributed to my recent bearing failure. Also, using "modern" oil with low ZDDP content may be a contributing factor.
Am I just grasping at straws to cover up poor assembly on my part (I don't think so, but that's always a possibility)?
If I'm going to pop an additional $400 (or more) for an oil cooler setup, I want to make sure I'm not just throwing good money after bad.
#371
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I did my oil cooler for ~200. If you can piece some pieces together it gets a little cheaper. I got a setrab cooler from racer parts wholesale. But call and ask for ones with the brackets because the circle track guys all cut them off.
#380
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<p>That too. He will sell you the thermostat and fittings for a bit more but its worth it. Also I mis-spoke. It isn't racer parts wholesale where you get used ones. Its 2ndchanceraceparts.com. Call them.</p>