Quigs

iTrader: (2)

I got around to measuring squat with the trailer attached. It's about 3.5" of squat. I think I'm going to invest in some air bags after looking into them a bit. I think it might be a worthwhile option for relatively low cost.

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Thread update: this season sucks so far.

Attended VIR in March, car did fine, truck towed great. Nothing new to report there.
Skipped Summit in April due to it being over Easter Weekend and choosing to go grab the new gooseneck trailer instead.
Missed Hyperfest in May at VIR due to not having any free time to do anything at all with craziness at work. Been slowly getting the new trailer setup.
Looks like I'll be missing Summit in June due to not being able to get the time off work.
So, next event is looking to be Pitt Race in July for the NASA MA and GL crossover. The car has sat and collected dust since March and needs new brakes and ideally a good corner balancing. Hoping to have some time in the next month or so to get it squared away to make the most out of traveling out of region for the first time.
Should be good to hit VIR in August, maybe do a "fun event" with SCCA at Summit Point Shenandoah circuit in September, back to VIR in October, and then finish out the year at Summit in Novemebr.

This off-season plan is to get the entire chassis side of things completely sorted out for whatever the future holds: aero, hubs, fire system, maybe big brakes with better ducting for those and the radiator. I want the chassis done for whatever powertrain I decide to go with.

Next year I'll jump to TT5 with the aero even though I will be underpowered. I'm contemplating ECU choices to be able to sneak a little more power out of the stock BP, but I don't want to commit to one now and have it not work with whatever I choose later. Right now Haltech makes sense because it can work with either BP or K24. We'll see how much money is leftover after Black Friday chassis shopping.

Right now I'm just bummed I haven't been on track in a while haha. But, it'll all be worth it in the end as the new trailer will make out of region travel SO much more comfortable.

doward

I feel this. SOO much.

I plan on making it to that event, probably in my TT5 BRZ.

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Sweet!

Z33Taxi

​​​​​​​Both of you spelled Lime Rock in July wrong

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Haha. Unfortunately I had to adjust my vacation schedule already so I had to close the door on Lime Rock for this year. It was fully my intention until everything schedule-wise derailed by committing to this new trailer.

I do think, however, that I actually might be able to make Summit this month though. Originally I couldn't get the day off work but I was able to secure coverage. Now I'm in full on crunch mode to try to get the dust off the car and get some semblance of a corner balance on it, get the airbags on the truck, keep the trailer as-is for now and come back to some of the bigger projects later, and most importantly figure out how the hell I'm going to get the trailer out of my driveway, It's too big to get around the massive ditch on my road but I haven't been able to get the contractor for the driveway extension scheduled yet. Time to build some sort of bridge for the mean time!

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Had a relatively good weekend at Summit Point a couple weeks back. Car ran fine, it was just a very hot and muggy weekend. Also my first weekend instructing, so I was tired. My student had a blast though and made some outstanding progress throughout the weekend where we started really leaning on the car. He had a relatively stock Focus RS.

Best lap was in an afternoon session where I had the track to myself. 0.2 seconds off my PB that was set in much cooler fall weather. I think high 27s are possible in the fall. The TT6 track record is 1:27.6 and was set on Hoosiers. I'd be happy to get within half a second on the RRs. I have some room to drop another 20 lbs of ballast as well.


HOWEVER, I went ahead and bough a take-off set of R7s to compare to how the car feels on RRs since I've been running the Toyos for a while now. I'm going to toss the R7s on for the final three events I think, though I'll have to upclass to TT5 due to 205/50/15 R7 on 15x9 not fitting the 226mm NASA template. I didn't want to buy a new set of wheels just to experiment with the R7s and I don't compete against anyone in TT6 anyway, so it's not like I'm affected by losing any points. I'm going to hold off on the R7s for the next event at Pitt Race so I can 1) finally kill off my now very old and 50+ HC R888Rs on Friday practice and 2) since I'll be learning a new track for the first time I don't have any relative control data on the RRs. I would also have to add an absurd amount of ballast to be able to run R7s in TT6 since I can't detune at all with my stock ECU.

The reason for the R7s was stimulated by my new conundrum I'm in - I rode with my buddy who has a LS-swapped E92 BMW with full aero and 315 A7/R7 square setup. Holy crap. His car has power, brakes, AND grip. And he drives so much less effortlessly than I feel like I am. It made me wonder if I wanted to get into something more sustainable moving into the future as I don't foresee any competition in TT6 any time soon. All newer cars come with more power or displacement and I think TT6 will be mostly obsolete moving into the future a few more years. I know I can dump a bunch of money into the Miata with turbo, K-swap, etc...but I'm wondering if that money is better spent on a chassis that can be relevant further into the future. TT3 is the popular class in Mid-Atlantic with TT2 close behind. TT5 occasionally has a good showing, but it's hit or miss for the most part.

Anyway, it's been a lot to think about the past couple weeks. For now I think I'm just going to keep running the car as-is without dumping any more major money into it while I consider what I want to do. The R7s will hopefully at least give me a little excitement with something new to play around with to finish out the season.

Also, the truck did great with the new airbags. So smooth and comfortable. Towing him was literally a one hand affair and I felt very relaxed just cruising home after a long weekend. The larger trailer was well worth the commitment as being able to move around (and most importantly sleep) with the car in the trailer is going to make travel so much nicer.

icantlearn

ah yes. The inevitable cycle of miata people finally understanding these cars are not always the answer. Cheap (when mildly built) yes, and that's about it.

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

I had a feeling it was going to happen eventually. Cheap was the original driving factor years back when shopping for a track only car, but now I definitely want more.

My buddy with the E92 came over today and we spent some time messing around on the sim preparing for Pitt Race later this month. He wanted to use the C7.R Corvette. It was an interesting experience being off throttle more than on throttle like I'm used to in a Miata haha. I'm going to have to completely relearn how to drive if I get into something with power.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

If you wanna run the 205s on a 15x9 you'll just need to ballast up to over 2400lbs and readjust that number to the 0.3 adjustments for over 226mm and 1.6 going from RRs to R7s. For TT I'm still not convinced this year's big break to RR means they're the way to go. For ST though...... after seeing the data from so many different GLTC cars....... The +1.0 200tws are the way to go for sure lol.

And yes you're in the common dilemma that most of us consider. It can depend on your goals obviously. If you're looking for consistent competition across the nation in w2w...... hard to out-do Spec Miata. But hey, you're east coast...... come on over to GLTC If your goal is TT then there are so many choices..... how much can you spend?! Dollar-to-Speed a C5 or 350z is hard to beat right now. I would also lump E46 into that category. With any option the consumables go up, of course. Another view point that I've heard from drivers, sometimes it's as much fun or even more fun driving a slow car fast. Example - my buddy got out of his TT4 E36M and into my TTE car, did a session and said he had more fun ringing out the miata than driving his much faster car.

I think if I was starting over and had a typical "Kmiata racecar" budget, I'd actually do a LFX RX8. Though that's a lot more work than a C5, Z33, or E46.

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Because my HP is fixed due to stock ECU, I would have to ballast up to 2560 to meet the 131 avg HP that my car dyno'd. That's a lot of weight to add when I normally run at 2370.
I agree 100% that driving a slow car fast can be more fun. And I thoroughly enjoy the hell out of it. My issue is that ST/TT6 is dead in Mid-Atlantic. It's still kicking down there in SE, but for how long? I don't intend on every competing Nationally, and I don't care for the super restrictive ruleset and petty protesting of Spec Miata. TT and ST are great because of the ability to use whatever car you want and build it how you want. Yes, consumables will be much higher, but like you said a C5 or 350Z is hard to beat for bang for the buck right now. And would put me right in line with where the competition is in Mid-Atlantic.

That's the biggest factor of my thought to switch. I could dump engine swap money into the Miata, or go to something similar but different like a LFX RX8 as I've thought of that as well, but that money spent and the work that goes into it would go a lot further in a chassis that doesn't need a powertrain swap. Hence my conundrum haha.

engineered2win

That's a bit disingenuous.

There really weren't too many options 5+ years ago for affordable, relatively quick, and relatively reliable RWD track cars when most of us bought our NA/NB Miatas. Now it's a matter of the sunk cost fallacy. So the question becomes:
Do I want to sell all my Miata stuffs (at a significant loss), in order to go out and dump a bunch more money and time into building/prepping a new chassis in the hopes of being slightly faster?
OR
Do I dump some more money into the Miata?

I remember my RWD track car short list being: C5 vette, 350Z, E36/E46, and Miata. My buddies and I all agree C5/C6 vette is still the best speed/$ ratio. However, they were/are significantly higher initial cost (I bought my mint rust free 10th AE w/ hardtop for ~$7k vs what maybe 15k for the cheapest vette on the market circa 2015). Which the cost alone kinda killed the vette for me. I had about $15k saved up to buy a fun car and do enough mods to get it out on track in HPDE. So the vette would have blown right through that, whereas the Miata got to a pretty high level on $15k. Also the idea of a newb jumping right into a fairly powerful v8 was a bit intimidating.

The BRZ was still relatively new and really still isn't anything spectacular. S2000's were more than double the cost and a hard top was an extra $3-5k (so bordering on vette money). NC Miata's were extremely unloved. 350Z's are still mostly unloved. And the car choice for BMW and 350Z comes down more to popularity within your region. For example, there are only maybe 3-4 SpecE46's and 0 SpecZ's in Great Lakes, so those would have been dumb choices for myself.

In hindsight the biggest problem I see with the Miata was just fitting a race seat in the damn car. Which I didn't realize until after owning the car. I have dozens of hours into just fabbing up mounts, cutting the tunnel, removing the stock floor mounts, after spending many hours trying to determine what FIA seat even had any prospect to fit. Whereas any other car on the list just drops in with some adapter plate. And I'm 5'11", so not ungodly tall by any metric.

codrus

Lol at "most of us".

The Miata is fine for what it is, but other things change over time. Your skill improves, your goals change, and after a while you may feel like you've explored all of the things that a particular car has to offer and it's just time for something different.

--Ian

bimmerboy

I’ll give you my $.02.

I have 4 track only cars: BMW F80, BMW E36, Miata 1.8 VVT, and Miata K24Z3.

The K-swap outruns everything aside from the F80 when it’s equipped with Pirelli DH scrubs. Dollar for dollar, the K-swap out performs everything… and I’ll admit that I’m a BMW fanboy. The F80 just costs too much everywhere… brake pads, tires, front hubs ($300ea annually) other consumables, track insurance, etc. The E36 is a bit fragile with replacement parts no longer available or very expensive to get: ie: brake booster, front control arms. And aftermarket “race” stuff is also expensive. Instead of Xidas you’d be looking at MCS 1-ways for around $1000 more. Rims are more expensive and also tires. Although Apex rims has a half price no questions asked replacement. I’ve cracked a new Konig rim already. But being a McStrut car… just doesn’t hit the same as either of the Miatas.

But I’m not competing. Instructing at HPDE’s is mostly all I do. Maybe some TT stuff because the K-swap should make for a competitive car in Gridlife TR.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

NA/NB was the answer from about 1992 through maybe 2018. Now the intrinsic age and poor condition of most donor cars is so bad that you have to drop $4k just to keep it from crumbling the first time you lean on it. And that's before trying to make it fast. In 2017 you could buy a straight, complete unmodified high mileage NA with faded paint, ragged top, clean interior, with a hard top for around $3500 in Socal, and $2500 if you were 400 miles from the nearest ocean. That same car now is $8000.

FRS/BRZ much faster but still a bit too much to buy-in.

That leaves the NC, which now run about the same as an NA/NB with the same mileage and condition. The difference is the NC is not a 30 year old rotted hulk. For the same influx of $$, the NC will be 2-4s a lap faster, break less and be cheaper to keep running.

The NA/NB still makes sense if you already have a bunch of sunk cost and dead BP. That dead engined but otherwise sorted NA/NB is worth what, $6k?
$12k for a well sorted K swap is still less than any other option that's anywhere near as fast.

That's my perspective as an FRS, NC, NA, ND, ND, S2K, C6 owner anyway

doward

This is why I am kswapping. Even as an 86 owner that could cage/race prep my BRZ with the money I could theoretically recoup from selling the BP-less miata roller, I'd rather drive a Miata.

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

Where does the GT350 fall in that list?

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Poor value, but best sounding. SS1LE Camaro a strong contender but consumables are scary. S197 Mustang GT actually comes out strong in value, but you need to be OK with stick axles and high consunables.

A chart we made a while back

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Those are all the exact thoughts/conversations I had 5-6 years ago when I bought my Miata, so I certainly feel all that. I think today those are still the top RWD track car choices. I still keep coming back to Miata being the answer, there's just always something in the back of my mind wanting just a BIT more. I'm hesitant to dump money into it with something like a K-swap just to find out I still feel like it's missing something. Though, the same exact thing could happen by switching to a different platform as well...

​​​​​​​I think the lack of cars to compete with is my (current) driving factor for wanting a change. Even the slowest "modern" track day car is faster than TT6. I can certainly understand the consumables difference with the more expensive cars.

I wish the NC had been JUST a bit more affordable when I was originally shopping. Or that I had been patient and saved up more for one. Granted, all the work with the stuff you guys have been putting out for the NC makes things a lot easier now-a-days, 5-6 years ago I feel like there wasn't quite as much aftermarket support or chassis popularity as I think Spec MX-5 was just getting going into greater popularity.


At the end of the day I really don't know what I want to do. I like my Miata, a lot actually, and even as I've been discussing this with my wife over the past month we've both mentioned how much we would miss it. However, the same three questions keep coming up every time we discuss:
1. What's more important - low cost, people to compete with, or ease of maintenance/repairs?
2. Am I just bored at current prep/power level, or bored with Miatas in general, or simply just want something new and shiny?
3. What is the sustainability of a small tire chassis moving into the future? Are tire companies going to continue making performance 15s just for NA/NB Miatas and the few other cars that use them?

I still really like the idea of a K-swap, I just need to get over the idea of dumping so much money into a beat up Miata.

Quigs

iTrader: (2)

Packed up and ready for my first trip to Pitt Race this weekend. I'm very excited to try it out, videos and the rough version on Assetto Corsa make it look very fun and technical. Modest goal is sub-2:10.

Been thinking a lot about the future of the car this week. Leaning back toward Kswap for the moment. It really is a well sorted car, it just needs more oomph.