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Old 03-09-2011, 09:04 AM   #121
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Your diff will probly kersplode at an autox, lol.

Sounds amazing!
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:21 PM   #122
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Hello Everyone!

So after getting the new Tial wastegate installed, I was itching to see what kind of power Sunflower was putting down. I called up Edge Automotive here in Knoxville and scheduled some dyno time! They had an excellent shop/dyno setup and were great to work with.

Shortly after I arrived, the crew got right to it and strapped Sunflower down! This won't hurt a bit... well ok, the probe up the old tailpipe won't be much fun. :-)

Another shot - all cinched in and ready to roll!


Here's the latest engine shot. Nothing has changed under here since the recent wastegate install.


So how did it do? My best horsepower run was 252.8 at 6,400 rpm and my best torque run was 219.8 ft-lbs at 5,600 rpm. Stock Miatas usually make around 105hp and 92 ft-lbs of torque, so that's a 140% increase in both horsepower and torque! Amazing! The best thing is how flat the torque curve is. These curves make my old Greddy setup look like there was a potato in the tailpipe at the top end.

We're doing pretty good in the power to weight ratio department too, as figuring in a 15% drivetrain loss would work out to about 290hp at the flywheel. That's 7.6 lbs/hp. For comparison's sake, a 2011 Porsche Boxster comes in at 9.0 lbs/hp (320 hp and 2900 lbs).

While those numbers are good, the dyno is a harsh mistress. She immediately informed me of a bad boost leak that I had thanks to a blown out DSM throttle body elbow gasket. The leak was quite spectacular, shooting a mist of my "boost cooler" fluid all around the gasket. This will be an easy fix and will definitely help with power and torque. It's hard to say how much that hurt my numbers, but it did have a negative impact - it was a huge leak.

Here's the dyno sheet:


And here's the video:


So what did I learn?
  • Don't ever forget to do a boost leak test before heading to the dyno ever again. (I'm REALLY kicking myself over this one.)
  • This manifold and turbo setup is superb for a stock 1.6L engine. How can you argue with the great power curves, especially given the price?
  • A 3" exhaust will undoubtedly help, as will a similarly sized true Garrett turbo.
  • I'll be adding my ECMLink software soon, as the "mystery EPROM chip" in the ECU and the HKS VPC piggyback aren't optimal for fine tuning, which is leaving some power on the table. For those not familiar with Mitsu stuff, ECMLink offers robust tuning and datalogging features via a simple drop in flash storage EPROM chip. If you'd like to see more, check out the install on on my Talon website It's a great tool.
  • The Miata has got to be the greatest all-around platform that a car guy could ever want!

Thanks for reading!

-Tom
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:33 PM   #123
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Very nice! That must be such a blast to drive, and I imagine you'll be picking up quite a bit more power once you get 'Link installed and sorted out.

I'm so freaking excited to get mine buttoned up I can hardly stand it lol.
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Old 04-02-2011, 12:03 AM   #124
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You know... theres an autox on Sunday :-D

Nice numbers, especially with a leak!
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Old 04-02-2011, 12:29 AM   #125
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Awesome build, that car looks like a ton of fun!
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:07 AM   #126
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Beautiful car. Super build. 100% agree with "The Miata has got to be the greatest all-around platform that a car guy could ever want!"
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Old 04-02-2011, 09:50 PM   #127
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Tom, Looks great! Do you a have a plot on your Greddy setup? My greddy setup looks the same except I made significanty higher amount of torque.

Last edited by PatrickB; 04-02-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:38 PM   #128
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Out of boost does your T3 still whine when getting near postive pressure?
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:09 PM   #129
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Thanks for the support everyone! To answer your questions:


Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewdesigns
Very nice! That must be such a blast to drive, and I imagine you'll be picking up quite a bit more power once you get 'Link installed and sorted out.
Thanks! It is so much fun right now. Other than installing ECMLink, I think I'll leave everything else as is and just enjoy the heck out of it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129
You know... theres an autox on Sunday :-D
Nice numbers, especially with a leak!
Thanks! I'm looking forward to doing some racing this season...just gotta find a way to get a free day on the weekends. It's kinda tough with two little kids.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickB
Do you a have a plot on your Greddy setup? My greddy setup looks the same except I made significantly higher amount of torque.
I've got it posted somewhere on the forum here. The plot was pretty ugly - It made a little more torque than this setup, but peaked waaay early then dropped off quickly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Techsalvager
Out of boost does your T3 still whine when getting near postive pressure?
Mine doesn't seem to whine that I can tell. My transmission whines a bit in the lower gears thanks to the lightweight flywheel, but nothing other than that.


Thanks again for checking it out everyone!

-Tom
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:23 PM   #130
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I love the pipe going into your TB.. Did you mill down the TB? Where did you find that flange?

Awesome...
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:50 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aug View Post
I love the pipe going into your TB.. Did you mill down the TB? Where did you find that flange?

Awesome...
Thanks! That pipe is a stock 2G DSM/4G63 elbow, which bolts up nicely to the DSM throttle body I'm using. For the Miata, I just flipped it to aim down. Here are the same parts on my '91 Talon:

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Old 04-03-2011, 02:54 PM   #132
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Tom I'll do a quick look For that plot. I am not seeing a huge drop off in torque, stock greddy downpipe perhaps? Dyno jet corrected #'s on my plot @ 15psi would be 262/251. I'm just curious more then anything.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:09 PM   #133
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Thanks for sharing; I might have to steal my friend's tb.. haha
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:41 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickB View Post
Tom I'll do a quick look For that plot. I am not seeing a huge drop off in torque, stock greddy downpipe perhaps? Dyno jet corrected #'s on my plot @ 15psi would be 262/251. I'm just curious more then anything.
I searched for my old dyno post on here but couldn't find it for some odd reason. I did have the stock Greddy downpipe up until the stock Miata flange, where I cut it and ran 2.5" from there on back. FYI- I didn't ditch the Greddy setup to upgrade to this for more power. I sold it all when I was planning on selling the car. Once I decided that it was silly to sell the car I went the Ebay/T3 route for simplicity and low cost. I expected to match the Greddy numbers at best.

I know there is plenty more hiding in the tune and overall optimization of the setup. The ridiculous boost leak sure didn't help my case either. I fixed it on Sunday and the car felt much stronger on the top end. Amazing what plugging a huge hole will do!
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:17 PM   #135
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I love this build. Great numbers.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:08 PM   #136
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Did you happen to use a pocketlogger Tom? If so what kind of timing were you getting? My old 4g63 mirage if it had decent gas would get 21 degrees at 17-18psi if it had some not so great gas it would see a small amount of knock drop it 10-12 dagrees of timing. I swear it felt like it made a huge difference. By huge I mean 50whp.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:18 PM   #137
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What boost level were these runs at and how much ignition timing?

what size are your injectors and what pressure are you running them at?

You have better top end for sure, where I have more mid. The wate rinjection is what is probably helping yours keep torque up to 6.5K when I dive off at 6K.

here's how that turbo performed the last time I dynoed it:




fwiw, the miata has around 25HP worth of drivetrain loss, not 15%. You don't need to include your de-gayifing miata selling points when you copy and paste your poasts over here
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:27 PM   #138
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14psi it was in the video. I think the only way he would know what timing he was getting was by using something like a pocketlogger for dsm's. The minimum he was probably getting was 10-12 the max about 20-22. I would need to re-read this thread to see if he is using a knock sensor if not, it would probably be no less then 17-18. Every DSM ecu is a little different, but these are the general rules. Tom if you don't have a logger anymore I think I have one laying around you can get from me on the cheap.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:30 PM   #139
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I'm running around 16* on mine above, I don't want to go more. I detonate around 20*.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:47 PM   #140
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To answer PatrickB's and Brain's questions:

-I currently gather data using the old TMO Datalogger program for DSMs. Soon I'll be using ECMlink to both tune and gather data.

-On my dyno runs, I was running 14 pounds of boost and seeing between 21-24 degrees of timing. There was no knock at all (I use a stock DSM knock sensor) and the duty cycle of the 550cc RC injectors was around 55% at 43psi of fuel pressure.

-The water/methanol setup is life changing. I've been running it on my turbo cars for a long time and the Miata really loves it. I run no-name convenience store 93 octane and hardly ever see a blip of knock. I believe I could lean things out a bunch across the board, add more boost and still run aggressive timing with no safety concerns at all. The water/meth is just that dang good.

-Thanks for posting your graphs in here Brain. The differences are interesting, and the beefier mid range definitely gives me something to aspire to once I install ECMLink and begin optimizing my tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack
You don't need to include your de-gayifing miata selling points when you copy and paste your poasts over here.
Noted.
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