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Old 01-14-2011, 07:36 PM   #81
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Can you tell the difference between a friendly dog and an aggressive dog when they are running towards you?

I can't!
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:38 PM   #82
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I was born at Darnell Army Hospital on Fort Hood. Dad is a Texas Longhorn alumnus from up in Austin.

I am sorry about the dogs, btw.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:51 PM   #83
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truth.

I've met plenty of humans whose life isn't worth near as much as a dog's.


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Old 01-14-2011, 08:05 PM   #84
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Signed. The point is that everyone was inside and safe. THEN he went out and purposely shot the dogs.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:22 PM   #85
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Can you tell the difference between a friendly dog and an aggressive dog when they are running towards you?

I can't!
I can, and I am sure you can too. Pics do not show the details that real life do.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:29 PM   #86
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Que?

And with regard to Brain's pics, how does the dog know the difference between a burglar and a cop? Or the neighbor's kid? It really doesn't. That's the wildcard that scares everyone except the owner, because he's the only one not at risk.
most dogs, and it seems pits especially, can pick up on signals that a person puts out regarding intentions. i know my pit was fine when a friend came over, one that she had never met before, but when a friend that had been over many times came to my house with bad intentions (ready to fight another friend of ours over a chick, and he brought a knife) she stopped him at the door and we were able to keep him from ruining our party and possibly hurting or killing someone there. same thing happened when a friend would bring his dog over (a little weiner dog) it would jump all over my pit, biting at her tail, climbing all over her, and she wouldn't pay him any attention. same with another buddy's lab, but when a rottweiler was running loose and charged us she was ready to stop that big bastard. lucky for him his broken chain got caught on something. not saying thats always the case, but dogs can tell alot better than people most of the time if someone has bad intentions.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:29 AM   #87
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Signed. The point is that everyone was inside and safe. THEN he went out and purposely shot the dogs.
This is the case people are making for "he overreacted" and it is nowhere close to the point.

There is no way you will ever convince the American public that pit-bulls aren't dangerous... EVER.

As a pitbull owner, you're accepting of the fact that nobody will ever apply logic or reason during an encounter with your dog. You might hope that they will, but mostly they will simply be afraid and they will react in whatever manner they feel is appopriate. Some people will call the police. Some people who live in Texas and own AK-47's will come outside, hunt your dogs down and kill them. You might feel that the shooter overreacted but it really doesn't matter. The dogs are dead and they are dead because the owner chose that breed over another. I find it unlikely that the shooter would have come outside his house to kill 3 Pekinese or 3 Labs or 3 Dalmations.

If the man had come outside and killed 3 Basset Hounds with a .22 under the exact same circumstances, the entire country would be in a damned frenzy and out for the shooters' blood. But instead we have pit's, and most people can identify with the scared father and even if they think he overreacted, could care less about 3 dead pit's. They feel for the kids who lost their dogs, but not for the loss of the dogs because they were obviously vicious killers and you will never convince them othewise. Again, there is little logic and reason to put to this, it's simply the specific emotional response to any situation involving a pit.

All dogs can be dangerous and viscious, but there are dozens of other breeds that by their nature are large, loving, cuddly, nurturing, great around kids, do not scare the living **** out of people, do not inspire deep instinctual fear, do not provoke extreme emotional responses, and don't get shot when they go sniffing around your neighbors kids. This is not rocket surgery. Making a decision to purchase/inherit/rescue a pit carries with it a stigma that you will never shake and non-pit owners will always assume things about you personally and attach a stereotype. Why in the world would you ever own one of these dogs?
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:37 AM   #88
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Honestly, its Texas. If a dog comes on your property and attacks your kids...bang
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:39 AM   #89
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Let me first start by saying that I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm too drunk to read the entirety of this thread, but after reading the first couple pages, I feel compelled to share the story of one of the most loyal and heroic dogs I've ever heard of. I've never once owned an animal without a personality and I don't understand how anyone just "has a dog." Treat an animal like it's a legitimate part of the family, love and respect it and you'll be rewarded with a doting, protective animal.

Long before I was born, my father purchased a Staffordshire terrier puppy with a bloodline traced so far back it put most Greyhounds to shame. The puppy was given the name *****. He did a lot of research before picking out the dog and had enough time to dedicate to raising a 'pit bull' puppy at the time. He spent four hours or more every day working with the dog and when he wasn't being trained, ***** was sitting and waiting for orders. While he was treated like an equal during off-time, there was no doubt what his role was in the house. ***** was never walked on a leash after his second year or so. There was never an issue with him disobeying my father or acting up in his absence. The dog was more mature and trustworthy than a 20-year-old Amish girl who just got her first period.

*****'s mother was a notorious feral cat killer and to discourage this behavior in the puppy, he was raised with a kitten. The pair was inseparable as they often worked together to open doors and were constantly playing. There was one unforeseen consequence of raising a kitten with a rough-and-tumble dog -- he came out being one bad *****. The cat would literally fight dogs. I'm not talking one dog; I'm talking multiple dogs and whenever he got in over his head, he'd run home to his buddy. One eerie thing was, no matter where the cat was (the dog knew better than to leave the property), the dog could tell when something was wrong. ***** knew who belonged and who didn't belong on his property.

While technically my dad's dog, he really loved my mom and I. While she was home pregnant with me, the dog never left her side. He doted on her until after I was born and he began protecting newborn me. He slept beside my crib and was quicker to alert my parents of my hunger or other need than the radio baby monitor.

***** sired one litter before he died of cancer.

While there was no doubt that while he would have sacrificed himself to keep us safe without hesitation, he didn't have any of the qualities people like to label all dogs of the breed as having. It's bullshit and the blame lies with the owner, not the dog. A dog's only sense of right and wrong is what you teach him or her.

A few years before he got sick, the local media was in a frenzy over 'pit bull' attacks. Every single time someone was bit by a dog, they'd interview some frenzied 'witness' who'd go on and on about how it was a pit bull and how it was such a mean dog and half the time they'd show the supposed 'pit bull' and it'd be obvious to anyone with an IQ over 70 that the dog was not a pit bull. Angry PTA moms, busybody ******* realtors and stay-at-home dads beat their chests and preached the evils of the breed while placing no blame on the owner. Eventually, the pussies got their way 'pit bulls' were outlawed in Dade County. Existing animals were grandfathered in, yet had to be registered twice. Once as a dog and once as a pit bull. My parents refused to register our dog twice in protest and were issued a citation and given a date to appear before a board, not even a judge or anything. They took our attorney and basically told the county where they could put their citation. Nothing ever happened and the dog lived out his remaining years while shitting only on select lawns in the neighborhood.

Breed specific legislation is retarded. Boxy head? Pit bull. Short arms? Pit bull. Red nose? Pit bull. Stubby tail? Pit bull. Cropped ears? Pit bull. The whole concept is stupid. My friend's AKC registered American Bull Dog was destroyed because his neighbors called and complained that he owned a 'pit bull' and that the dog was a menace. The dog was in his teens, had two bad hips and cataracts in both eyes. Yeah, it was a real ******' menace all right. If anything was menacing, it was the poor dog's farts. Jesus Christ, they'd make your eyes water.

I'm not living in a glass house, I've been attacked by a few dogs in my lifetime. I used to walk home from my middle school and would often encounter loose dogs. Most of the time they'd not pay any attention to me but one time I can remember getting bit by a neighborhood dog. I got t-boned and knocked off my bike by a Great Dane who stood over me and began to tear my shirt while I tried to push him back with part of my broken handlebar (shitty GT performer). That piece of **** got hit by a garbage truck a few weeks later and supposedly spent his last few minutes howling. **** that dog, I'm glad he suffered.

If you're an *******, your dog will be an *******.
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:46 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
This is the case people are making for "he overreacted" and it is nowhere close to the point.

There is no way you will ever convince the American public that pit-bulls aren't dangerous... EVER.

As a pitbull owner, you're accepting of the fact that nobody will ever apply logic or reason during an encounter with your dog. You might hope that they will, but mostly they will simply be afraid and they will react in whatever manner they feel is appopriate. Some people will call the police. Some people who live in Texas and own AK-47's will come outside, hunt your dogs down and kill them. You might feel that the shooter overreacted but it really doesn't matter. The dogs are dead and they are dead because the owner chose that breed over another. I find it unlikely that the shooter would have come outside his house to kill 3 Pekinese or 3 Labs or 3 Dalmations.

If the man had come outside and killed 3 Basset Hounds with a .22 under the exact same circumstances, the entire country would be in a damned frenzy and out for the shooters' blood. But instead we have pit's, and most people can identify with the scared father and even if they think he overreacted, could care less about 3 dead pit's. They feel for the kids who lost their dogs, but not for the loss of the dogs because they were obviously vicious killers and you will never convince them othewise. Again, there is little logic and reason to put to this, it's simply the specific emotional response to any situation involving a pit.


=

IGNORANCE


Do you believe that a gun itself is dangerous, or is it only dangerous if handled improperly?

Pit bulls and EVERY OTHER ******* DOG ON THIS PLANET WILL BE DANGEROUS IF HANDLED IMPOROPELY. Raise a pit bull right and it can be the most loyal dog ever, I have had two of them in my life and several other family members have owned Pits so I know this as a fact.

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I trust him with my son more than most humans.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:21 PM   #91
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Signed. The point is that everyone was inside and safe. THEN he went out and purposely shot the dogs.
This. All this banter of whether you can decipher whether a dog is dangerous or not is null and void. Should the dogs have been running loose, no, however, it happens all the time even in my litigation fearing neighborhood.

Based purely on the heresy of this story, it seems quite obvious that this guy a far greater threat of violence than he'd like to think the dogs were. If your ENTIRE family is safely inside your residence and not requiring medical attention then it is your responsibility to notify the proper authorities. The fact that this guy grabbed a ******* AK speaks to an irresponsibility on so many levels - an inability to understand/evaluate the repercussions both legally and for his family/children (you're guying to risk jail time over a child's claim they were attacked - I'm sorry but most small children are convinced every dog is attacking them unless it's their own).

Two things:

What is the purpose of the petition, does it have legal implications or is it simply an attempt to get crowd bias?

Secondly. can someone explain to this liberal Massachusetts boy why one needs an AK? As someone who believes the 2nd amendment has been severely misinterpreted, I believe this country has to a 'big boy' talk about guns and their purposes. I do not believe it should be a right - it needs to be privilege, and a well regulated one at that. I don't think the red coats will be sailing into our ports anytime soon.

-Zach
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:31 PM   #92
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Who doesn't need an AK?
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:54 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by thasac View Post

Secondly. can someone explain to this liberal Massachusetts boy why one needs an AK? As someone who believes the 2nd amendment has been severely misinterpreted, I believe this country has to a 'big boy' talk about guns and their purposes. I do not believe it should be a right - it needs to be privilege, and a well regulated one at that. I don't think the red coats will be sailing into our ports anytime soon.

-Zach

In following your argument, why do we need fast cars? Why do we need attractive women? Why do we need big houses? Why do we need anything more than necessary to get the job done? Because this is America and we have the RIGHT to. When the "Redcoats"(Chinese? Muslim extremists? N. Koreans?) do come, you will eat your words. Or maybe I'm just an ignorant hick who needs to let the liberal know-it-alls control his life.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:56 PM   #94
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In following your argument, why do we need fast cars? Why do we need attractive women? Why do we need big houses? Why do we need anything more than necessary to get the job done? Because this is America and we have the RIGHT to. When the "Redcoats"(Chinese? Muslim extremists? N. Koreans?) do come, you will eat your words. Or maybe I'm just an ignorant hick who needs to let the liberal know-it-alls control his life.
Irrelevant. None of the things you listed were designed solely for the act of killing.

I have no issue with the purchasing of sporting rifles or guns for home protection (to some degree). I do, however, take issue with citizens buying weapons which were designed for military use (e.g. - fire as many rounds and drop as many bodies as possible). There's just no logical justification for owning such equipment.

This country needs some Mexican/UK style gun laws (sans the obvious corruption).

-Zach
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:34 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
=
IGNORANCE

Do you believe that a gun itself is dangerous, or is it only dangerous if handled improperly?

Pit bulls and EVERY OTHER ******* DOG ON THIS PLANET WILL BE DANGEROUS IF HANDLED IMPOROPELY. Raise a pit bull right and it can be the most loyal dog ever, I have had two of them in my life and several other family members have owned Pits so I know this as a fact.

I trust him with my son more than most humans.
Lev, I'm not arguing with you on this point. I even said exactly what you said about "all dogs can be viscious"... but it doesn't matter.

You have chosen to look completely past the point I was making which simply can't be ignored. You are in the minority on your feeling on pitbulls, and 99.999% of the rest of the world will never be swayed to your side. It's a losing battle to try. At this point in your life, you have to be painfully aware of this fact. As long as you're OK with the way the rest of the world will always feel, and the consequences/stereotypes/stigmas/repercussions... then by all means, own lovable/kind/gentle pitbulls. I'm a bit more practical than that. There is no benefit to owning a pitbull regarding the love and companionship that dogs provide that can't be satisfied by another breed that doesn't carry with it such immense baggage. Again, why would you choose to own this dog over another considering that?
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:37 PM   #96
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As someone who believes the 2nd amendment has been severely misinterpreted...
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I do, however, take issue with citizens buying weapons which were designed for military use
Have you even read the 2nd amendment? Even a self-described liberal can't ignore the fact that it contains the word "militia." Even by a narrow interpretation it says that "the people" (not "the government" or "the state" or "the army") are supposed to be equipped to form a militia to help provide for the security of a free state. You're not going to provide much security to the free state if you're not equipped with stuff designed specifically for killing, weapons designed for military use. I would think that given the history of our country that people in Massachusetts of all places would understand that.

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I do not believe it should be a right
The rest of us are thankful that the Constitution and the Supreme Court say you're wrong.


The guy who shot those dogs is probably in serious trouble. He was charged as a criminal and he's going to wind up in court having to explain why he shot 3 dogs who weren't on his property with no evidence that his kids were ever attacked (they were scared, not attacked). There are circumstances where it's perfectly justifiable to shoot a dog, and under those circumstances where immediate action is required I wouldn't care if he used a little 10/22, a shotgun, AK or whatever. But the fact that he took a stroll down the street with his AK and then fired 3 (or more) rounds in the middle of a suburban neighborhood adds to the totality of the situation here. The guy has to be a ******* nutjob. If your kids are fine, a normal person calls the police and lets the animal catcher deal with loose dogs.
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:53 PM   #97
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In my personal experience with animals, ranging from benign pets to livestock to dangerous wildlife, you learn real fast that all animals have built in them certain behavior traits. That does not mean that all animals grouped either by species, breed, or ecotype will all have the same behavior, but the group generally have behaviors that are unique to that group. Obviously, there are exceptions, but as a whole group, you get a good picture of the risk you are taking when handling a particular animal.

The point is that no matter how well trained the animal is, or no matter how talented an individual is in handling an animal, some animals will always carry far more risk of injury to people than other animals.

Pitbulls as a group are down right dangerous animals compared to most breeds. Some are lucky enough to have one that is not dangerous, but everyone should be responsible enough to accept this reality.

I say this, because I have a dog that I am pretty certain is a pitbull mix. She seems pretty safe, but I will never completely trust her, and have to think about other peoples safety at all times.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:13 PM   #98
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Lev, I'm not arguing with you on this point. I even said exactly what you said about "all dogs can be viscious"... but it doesn't matter.

You have chosen to look completely past the point I was making which simply can't be ignored. You are in the minority on your feeling on pitbulls, and 99.999% of the rest of the world will never be swayed to your side. It's a losing battle to try. At this point in your life, you have to be painfully aware of this fact. As long as you're OK with the way the rest of the world will always feel, and the consequences/stereotypes/stigmas/repercussions... then by all means, own lovable/kind/gentle pitbulls. I'm a bit more practical than that. There is no benefit to owning a pitbull regarding the love and companionship that dogs provide that can't be satisfied by another breed that doesn't carry with it such immense baggage. Again, why would you choose to own this dog over another considering that?
You are absolutely correct, I alone will never be able to change the worlds view on them. But I also have no interest in doing so. I have more important things in my life. If people want to stay ignorant about the breed then that is their right, but its the same as being racist if you ask me.

Why I have a pit bull? Well I grew up with them for one, so I know how to handle, train and raise them. I know that if raised properly they are very very loyal dogs. The dog I have now I actually bought from some dude off the street, I figured I was doing my part in saving at least one from a bad life. I also like them for several other reasons. They have short hair, they are easy to maintain, they are very loveable, make very good guard dogs and they are a very intelligent breed.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #99
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Have you even read the 2nd amendment? Even a self-described liberal can't ignore the fact that it contains the word "militia." Even by a narrow interpretation it says that "the people" (not "the government" or "the state" or "the army") are supposed to be equipped to form a militia to help provide for the security of a free state. You're not going to provide much security to the free state if you're not equipped with stuff designed specifically for killing, weapons designed for military use. I would think that given the history of our country that people in Massachusetts of all places would understand that.


The rest of us are thankful that the Constitution and the Supreme Court say you're wrong.


The guy who shot those dogs is probably in serious trouble. He was charged as a criminal and he's going to wind up in court having to explain why he shot 3 dogs who weren't on his property with no evidence that his kids were ever attacked (they were scared, not attacked). There are circumstances where it's perfectly justifiable to shoot a dog, and under those circumstances where immediate action is required I wouldn't care if he used a little 10/22, a shotgun, AK or whatever. But the fact that he took a stroll down the street with his AK and then fired 3 (or more) rounds in the middle of a suburban neighborhood adds to the totality of the situation here. The guy has to be a ******* nutjob. If your kids are fine, a normal person calls the police and lets the animal catcher deal with loose dogs.
I don't want to go shitting on this thread with my thoughts on gun laws, however, I have read the 2nd amendment multiple times over. The problem with the 2nd amendment (and the constitution in general) is when individuals do not treat it as the living document it was intended to be. Militia meant exactly what it meant - a militia, not individuals; a group of individuals bond by the common cause of protecting a young nation. Our 'threats' have obviously changed since the writing of the constitution, however, the 2nd amendment does not reflect the realities of our modern threats or the fact that we now have a heavily funded military with an international presence. Need we be reminded of some of ratifications which have occurred since the writing?

Again, I'm not saying individuals should not have the right to own a gun. I do, however, believe that some states in this union need to reevaluate how lax and undefined their gun laws are.

My opinions on gun laws aside, I completely agree with your opinions concerning the incident - the guy is (hopefully) going to get the book thrown at him.

-Zach
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:32 PM   #100
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This country needs some Mexican/UK style gun laws (sans the obvious corruption).

-Zach



I fail to understand how stealing weapons from law abiding citizens will prevent criminals from using them?

Edit: Just read your last post, I am not in the least concerned about an international killer slipping into my town and murdering 30 people with his "assualt rifle;" as you said the military and border patrol are there to prevent such things. I am however worried about the burglar who breaks into my home at night. Do I need an AK-47 to prevent him from harming me or my family? No. But which would you rather have pointed at you when you break down my door? An AK or my single shot .22?

Back on topic, it all comes down to the right to defend yourself. I am not entirely clear if the man who shot the dogs did it in defense or out of spite, however don't think for a minute that any person has the right to take away anothers' to defend himself
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