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Old 02-10-2016, 04:33 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Clarification about "intent" means very little, and they can flip flop on that any time they want. What matters is the actual words in the regulation, and as those currently sit they do not only target heavy duty vehicles. The EPA isn't stupid, they know that. They also have a bad reputation for trying to pull things like this, it's far from unprecedented behavior.
Please elaborate.

vvv- agreed 100%.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Where has it ever been illegal to install whatever into whatever so long as it's not for use on a public road?
The United States.


From the EPAs point of view, there is no invisible barrier between racetracks / muddy fields / etc which prevents pollutants generated in those areas from drifting out into the general public. And they're correct; things like air and water have a bad habit of moving around.

So it really doesn't matter, from a practical perspective, whether a vehicle is being used for commuting, for competition, or for horsing around in the back 40. If it's generating pollutants, those pollutants cause harm.

I've never understood the whole "off road exemption" myself, and now I understand why. It's because said exemption is a fiction. (I never bothered to do the actual research until now.)


I just hope the coal-rollers are the first to go. I'll give up all of motorsports as a whole in exchange for seeing every antisocial ******* who has modified their truck to emit huge plumes of soot and smoke arrested and sentenced to the stocks.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:35 PM   #63
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If that is actually their intent they should do so in regulations for light duty passenger vehicles, not heavy duty trucks while writing in motorcycles and cars or anything with wheels.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:40 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I'm not the one questioning the authenticity of a PR person.
What? The "authenticity" (honesty? forthrightness?) of the PR person isn't in question. It's whether a "clarification" made to a car magazine bears any legal weight. 10 years from now, is some EPA middle-manager going to care what a PR person said to Road & Track magazine?
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:02 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post

You're incredibly obnoxious and have only contributed white noise pearl clutching.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Oh look, I, too, can move the goal posts and invoke ~scary imagery~ about **** that isn't going to happen.

hypocrisy?
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:08 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Yeah, I didn't understand this. Every single aftermarket part is already sold with "Off road use only" disclaimers. How are they going to target only the manufacturers who sell "devices" for cars used on public roads?
A stand alone ECU removes the EPA approved OBD2 computer. before people like DIY and Holley could sell the unit with a "for off road use only" sticker. with what the EPA spokeswoman said they are looking to close the "for off road use only" loop hole. So the manufactures will be targeted and forced to stop making the devices.

it will work kind of like Napster did in the 90's. there will be a bunch of suppliers that jump ship, the rest that hold out and fight the system. they will get sued into oblivion. then the people that try to be quiet but keep using the service will also be sued into oblivion. and this is a rules clarification so statute of limitation will be set for the date the law was passed. this is the clean air act so that date will be 1976. if your car was built before then you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:14 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post

I just hope the coal-rollers are the first to go. I'll give up all of motorsports as a whole in exchange for seeing every antisocial ******* who has modified their truck to emit huge plumes of soot and smoke arrested and sentenced to the stocks.
This might be the only upside to this entire situation. I can't stand coal rolling ******.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:38 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Yeah, but why aren't they crushing cars left and right now? The law's on the books. We're all outlaws.
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Yeah, I didn't understand this. Every single aftermarket part is already sold with "Off road use only" disclaimers. How are they going to target only the manufacturers who sell "devices" for cars used on public roads?
the law isn't on the books.. the EPA is trying to close the "for off road use only" loop hole.

i'm sorry if i'm getting a bit squeaky but long time ago i was a 350Z guy, hung out in the nissan fan boy world. the issues the guys had with importing Gt-r's was mid boggling. you had to get the car past customs, the EPA,and state.

i had a good friend bought a r34 GT-R spend 60k on the car. payed to have it legally imported, customs said it was fine, state said it was fine. he got a letter from the epa, then he immediately sold the car. epa showed up for the car, he had to tell them where he sold it to, or face jail time. they found the car and crushed it. i would hate to see that happen to normal people's car if all we have to do is sign a white house thing and support SEMA.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:54 PM   #69
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Default EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
if all we have to do is sign a white house thing and support SEMA.
That's funny....

Frankly you'd be better off finding your closest Republican Representative and writing them asking for help and citing the specific rule change.

At least they're on record as hating all things EPA.

And yes SEMA.
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:05 PM   #70
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Is it ironic that the agency responsible for the worst US environmental disaster of 2015 is concerned with a tiny minority of dudes who are actually making their cars perform better in many cases?
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Is it ironic that the agency responsible for the worst US environmental disaster of 2015 is concerned with a tiny minority of dudes who are actually making their cars perform better in many cases?
more like they are concerned with knocking out a industry that brings in 36 billion / year. and hide the paragraph inside a 600 page heavy duty truck amendment.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:13 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
the law isn't on the books.. the EPA is trying to close the "for off road use only" loop hole.

i'm sorry if i'm getting a bit squeaky but long time ago i was a 350Z guy, hung out in the nissan fan boy world. the issues the guys had with importing Gt-r's was mid boggling. you had to get the car past customs, the EPA,and state.

i had a good friend bought a r34 GT-R spend 60k on the car. payed to have it legally imported, customs said it was fine, state said it was fine. he got a letter from the epa, then he immediately sold the car. epa showed up for the car, he had to tell them where he sold it to, or face jail time. they found the car and crushed it. i would hate to see that happen to normal people's car if all we have to do is sign a white house thing and support SEMA.
He legally imported it, that's why it was crushed.

You do realize that the only legal R34s are the Motorex ones, right?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:15 PM   #73
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Any change to the current setup should have hard science behind it for the exact improvements closing the loophole is supposed to make.

Unmodified emissions equipment doesn't do **** at the track anyway. The car will be running too rich for the cat to do its thing, the EGR system will be shut off and the spark timing will be advanced enough, even on an unmodified ECU, to blow the NOx through the roof.

God help us all if they tried to force OEMs to meet emissions requirements at wide open throttle. We will be cranking out HP/liter numbers comperable to your lawn mower.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:20 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
i had a good friend bought a r34 GT-R spend 60k on the car. payed to have it legally imported, customs said it was fine, state said it was fine. he got a letter from the epa, then he immediately sold the car. epa showed up for the car, he had to tell them where he sold it to, or face jail time. they found the car and crushed it. i would hate to see that happen to normal people's car if all we have to do is sign a white house thing and support SEMA.
So what I'm hearing is he paid some people to have it illegally imported and now you're referencing ti as if it has any relevance to what we're talking about.. why?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:36 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by albumleaf View Post
So what I'm hearing is he paid some people to have it illegally imported and now you're referencing ti as if it has any relevance to what we're talking about.. why?
legally is the word i used
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:40 PM   #76
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So it was imported by Motorex?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:42 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
legally is the word i used
I have a million dollars in my checking account.

Edit: it didn't work.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:58 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
So it was imported by Motorex?
No idea. He had the car when I met him. One day he shows up with a Lexuskina thing and we heard the story.

It was more of an example of how the epa operates. According to the document the only thing that's clear is the punishment. It read one year in jail, $35,000 fine per violation, EPA has been know to seize the violating vehicle and crush it.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:01 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by albumleaf View Post
I have a million dollars in my checking account.

Edit: it didn't work.
Danm you spell check!!!!!! Gahhhh
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:14 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
No idea. He had the car when I met him. One day he shows up with a Lexuskina thing and we heard the story.

It was more of an example of how the epa operates. According to the document the only thing that's clear is the punishment. It read one year in jail, $35,000 fine per violation, EPA has been know to seize the violating vehicle and crush it.
Oh, so you're so certain of it's legality, but don't know if it was a Motorex car. Gotcha.
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