Pen2_the_penguin

iTrader: (4)

Guns just dont discharge, the ignorant bitch obviously had her finger on the trigger while waving it around like a fergeson crimin--- i mean, protester

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

arrested for failure to identify, then cop tries to erase the video.

two things:

1. You cannot be arrested for failure to ID. You can only be charged with failure to ID until AFTER you are arrested.
2. erasing video is also a crime.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

According to the NYPD, no, you are not: Rocket launcher seized during drug raid in Bushwick | New York's PIX11 / WPIX-TV

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

remember, every single one of those cops are wielding multi weapons.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

"turn it off and erase it" says one cop to the other.

05pearl

iTrader: (4)

Man carrying rifle prompts scare at Lamphere High School in Madison Heights - WXYZ.com

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

A "rocket launcher" without the rocket is just a tube.

But in PRNJ and PRNY it would be considered an unloaded weapon.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Evangelical open-carry advocates make all gun-owners look crazy. People like that might as well be on the payroll of an anti-gun lobbying group.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Props.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Posit: Firearm production and sales in the US have increased dramatically within the past few years. Is this a unique or noteworthy phenomenon?




The number of guns produced in the US increased by roughly 31% between 2011 and 2012, and while some are quick to point out the fact that total firearm sales during Obama's first term (26.1 million 2009-2012) nearly equals the number of firearms sold during the entire eight-year presidency of G.W. Bush (2001-2008), a sharply upward trend is observable long before the election of the current president (2005-2008), as well as during the latter half of the George H.W. Bush presidency, extending into the early part of the Clinton presidency (1991-1994).


(source)

(source)


Conclusion#1 : The rate of firearms sales in the US does not appear to directly correlate to the party affiliation of the sitting president or president-elect.





At the same time, the total number of individuals and households in the US which own firearms has been steadily decreasing, and is presently at a 40 year low.



(source)

(source)

(source)


Conclusion #2: At present, roughly 20% of individuals posses roughly 65% of the nations firearms, and this disproportionality continues to increase, with an ever larger majority of individuals electing not to own a firearm as the shrinking minority of gun-owners purchase more guns at an increasing rate.



Discuss.

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

I have a feeling that the numbers are way skewed on gun ownership.

People fear to admit that they have guns in the household due to the anti-gun position of the government and media.

I have witnessed a lot of new families and individuals obtaining guns that would never have thought of having them before. And, they are quiet about it.

dieselmiata

iTrader: (3)

This X 100.

I and many of my friends have firearms and go to great lengths to ensure no one knows about them. A General Social Survey is not a good source of measure on a hot button issue like firearms. I can't imagine a single person I know being truthful when asked. Anecdotal evidence, I know. But with the population ever increasing, record firearm licences issued, and record gun sales, I find it hard to believe that those sales are concentrated among such a small group. Guns aren't cheap.

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

Hmm... lemme get this straight...

CNN posts a story about guns where a study was done based on data they got from the General Social Survey by NORC (aka: University of Chicago, aka: Mecca of Liberal Bullshit) and gets the Violence Policy Center (aka: Bloomberg Anti-Gun Junk Science Central) to make a statement. It's also covered by the Washington Post who's author is a guy who used to work at the Brookings Institution, (aka: Socialist Study Center Fuckfaces). This is how awesome the Brookings Institute is: Revealed: Hamas-Backing Qatar, Also Funding Brookings Institute, Home of Former U.S. MidEast Envoy Indyk? | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com Yup, loves them some Islamic extremists.

I understand people "not liking guns" for whatever reason they feel they need to justify their "not liking"... but for ***** sake, how desperate does a person have to be for validation that they'd believe anything that came from places like that.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

This

I keep hearing that handgun sales are at an all time high in California, both for repeat purchasers and first time buyers though I have no source to back this up at the moment. As a firearms "enthusiast" and certified instructor I'm constantly approached by people who are looking to buy but have never shot in their lives. The overwhelming majority of these people are interested in handguns (solid 75%) and the rest are all AR-15 pattern rifles. I've probably spent more money buying ammo for other people to shoot in my guns in the last 2 years than I've purchased ammo for myself.

The first thing I ask them is why they want a gun. The responses are like clockwork:

1. For protection
2. I've always wanted one but never gotten around to it
3. I feel like if I don't get one now, the laws will make it impossible to purchase one in the future

I find it odd that so many people feel they need to protect themselves at this level, having never owned a firearm before. When pressed on the point its usually due to a mistrust or belief in the incompetence/inefficiency of local law enforcement. I live in a mostly affluent county in California but there are definitely bad parts and there is a serious gang and drug problem in some areas. These people don't live in those areas but the problems are definitely starting to creep.

I've always found 2 things very interesting about these people: most of them end up buying Glocks and again, the overwhelming majority do not discuss their purchases with their circles of friends.

My focus has always been education. I don't spew right wing tea party gun grabbing rhetoric at people in an attempt to "convert" them, I want to make sure that their experiences with firearms are positive and they are able to ask questions in a open, informed environment. I have friends who do the spew and I make sure they are not around when I'm dealing with new shooters. Example: About a year ago I took a friend out shooting who is a newspaper photographer/crime reporter and one of his co-workers (reporter) because they were interested in educating themselves regarding firearms. The reporter is a serious left wing Berzerkly pinko but even she found the restrictions that CA puts on its residents to be confusing and overwhelming. She literally thought that anyone could walk in off the street, drop cash and walk out with a gun. The fact that people in this day STILL believe this is how it works tells me that we have a serious disconnect going on, and there is an amazing opportunity for education. I have pics of her shooting one of my AR15s somewhere, but she asked me not to share them As a result of this outing, the local fishwraps reporting regarding firearms issues and crimes that include the mention of firearms has become SIGNIFICANTLY more accurate. Its funny how infrequently the words "assault weapon" are now used in said articles, now that they know what the actual California definition of an "assault weapon" actually is. I've enen been asked to (informally) proof several articles for technical details before publication.

I feel like at least locally, we are making some small progress in educating the general, non firearm owning public. I also feel that if more people were willing to do the same rather than standing on their soap boxes and yelling we could effect some real, lasting change. One thing at a time though

rleete

iTrader: (21)

In regards to the above article: I was presented with a questionnaire when I went in for the MRI on my back. Included were several questions about firearms. It was made very clear that incomplete forms would not be accepted. As a result, it is now on record that I no longer own any firearms of any kind.

Whether I actually do or not is left up to the imagination of the reader.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

By itself, no, a survey isn't an especially reliable predictor of anything.

The data presented above, however, is also supported by academic research which tracks the rate of suicides committed by firearm (source and source) which show that the rate of suicide-by-gun, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of total suicides, tends to track the reported rate of firearm ownership over the same time period, despite a relatively consistent number of suicides per year overall.





Nobody is questioning whether gun sales are at record highs, and it is axiomatic that as gun sales increase, the number of gun shops will increase, and thus require an increase in the issuance of federal firearms licenses.

The data, however, indicates that while the number of firearms is increasing, the democratization of gun-ownership is decreasing. Just as wealth tends to become more and more concentrated over time within the hands of a small number of extremely wealthy people, gun ownership seem to be becoming more concentrated within the hands of a shrinking pool of owners.



I find it relatively easy to believe.

People who are strongly passionate about a certain thing (be it as a hobby, for economic / political reasons, etc) will tend disproportionately to spend money on acquiring and maintaining representative samples of that thing as compared to the general public, and in many cases are more likely to own multiple examples of said thing than the general public is to own even one.

Cat ownership, for instance. Or Beanie Babies. Or comic books. Or bottles of craft beer. Or sports equipment. Or decorative plates bearing hand-painted likenesses of famous country music singers.

Consider money spent on high-performance car parts. I'd wager that a person who owns at least one set of racing tires is far more likely to own two or more sets of racing tires than the average person is to own any at all. Anyone disagree with that statement?

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

I have an entire gun safe full of high performance racing tires that would agree with you.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

^ Exactly.

Large gun safes are marketed, on the whole, to individuals who own a large number of guns. And while I have no data to back this up, I would wager that a relatively small percentage of households in the US contain a large gun safe.

Or have racing tires stacked up in the garage / kitchen / living room.

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

The graph of gun production indicates the beginning of the gun recession at about 1994. That recession appears to have ended around 2004 when it started increasing again. That 10-year time period is of significant relevance to the firearms industry.

In 2009, there was a sharp increase in gun production. This is popularly attributed to the change in executive leadership. Had that graph gone through today, you would probably see a bit of an uptick in 2012 followed by an enormous skyrocket in 2013 & 2014.

Regular handguns and hunting-specific equipment were not seriously threatened during any of these time periods.

The second graph shows a 35 year time period from 1975 to 2010. One must consider the significance of urbanization during the last 40 years and the drastic decrease in the size of the average american homestead over that time period. As houses grow more tightly packed together, the viability of hunting rifles for pest control decreases significantly. At the same time, with the increasing size of the city limits, the legality of using those weapons is also thrown out the window.

It is my expectation that per capita handgun ownership during the time periods has increased slowly, while per capita hunting implement ownership has decreased drastically. During this time, the AR Platform has become a popular "must have" for some, which has dramatically influenced the firearms production graph by being "cool toys". Popular acceptance of the AR platform would have also had a net positive effect on sales and production of non AR platform weapons. Those who own an AR for "defense" are also likely to be handgun owners. Those who own an AR for "hunting", probably own one or more shotguns. And those that own an AR for "target shooting" or "fun", probably have some of both other weapon types.

The % of firearm owners is directly proportional to the perceived need, perceived usefulness, and perceived acceptability of owning a firearm, while the quantity of firearms owned by those firearms owners is directly proportional to income and desire.

So in 2014, 32% of the population felt that it was either necessary or useful and acceptable to own a firearm. Of those 32% that own firearms, their average desire to own firearms, income levels, or both have increased during the reported time periods.

I attribute the decrease in firearm owners to not be attributed to people getting rid of guns, as I suspect that greater than 95-97% of people who have owned a firearm in their lives still own a firearm today. Rather I attribute it to both a decrease in new firearm owners coupled with the deaths of aging firearm owners.

I may or may not have had more than 10 serial numbers background checked against my name in the last 2 years. I am the curve killer.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)