samnavy

iTrader: (7)

Although not worried about my 3x approved Form 1's, glad I didn't have one in the queue when this went down. I've seen posting from about 30 people who have received denial letters for their Form1's... those who have contacted lawyers have all been told the same thing... "do not reply anything... sit tight and let the political process play out." The best discussion I've heard is that this is the overreach that several 2A groups have been waiting for the ATF to make so they can pounce. The basic premise is that that the ATF is only really supposed to be the mechanism to collect the $200 for the stamp and not to actually be a rule-making body... not a lawyer. The forums are thick with conspiracy theories, about half of which involve the fallout from the Diversified Machine fiasco, in which case this would be the ATF using a bulldozer to pull out some dandelions and makes zero sense... but those same people say everybody in the ATF are morons who love shooting dogs.

In any case, the entire "definition of a suppressor" and "are solvent traps defacto suppressors even with no bore-hold drilled" may not even be what is debated... just that the ATF can't change the rules without the prescribed processes of "proposed rule changes" followed by "public comment period"... followed by "bribes passed within political lobbying groups"... ect... which was a huge issue surrounding bump stocks (banned) and pistol braces (still legal... for now).

I saw one argument that made total sense where raw ore in the ground at the bottom of a mine was a suppressor part, just at a less refined state than a titanium solvent trap storage cup... and another where this was all because the ATF itself was tired of the absurd pain of suppressors being NFA items in the first place that this is a backwards attempt to get certain people upset enough about the whole thing to back the HPA so it's done with.

In any case, since everybody who will read this probably has an old Folgers can full of random flat washers and likely a piece of metal conduit or a cheater bar for your 1/2" breaker in the garage, then you are all in possession of suppressor parts and since you don't have an approved Form1, then you're all felons. I wish you the best of luck with your boating accident.

Roda

Yep. My lathe is a suppressor, because it could be used to fabricate one. Absurd, but since they've put the emphasis on "intent", a reasonable deduction if you use their terms.

I agree, the solution lies in the procedural overstep. Though I sincerely hope this eventually leads to a re-evaluation of the NFA in general. Several posters on other forums are arguing that suppressors and SBRs have long entered the SCOTUS' definition of "in common use", and as such cannot be constitutionally restricted.

I'm just very glad I've been procrastinating on the Form 1 suppressor build I've been considering (but not intending...).

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

If you interact with the government for any reason you are significantly more likely to be fucked than not dealing with them. If the ATF is the equivalent of the DMV with pistols on their hips I'm not playing semantics games with them.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I heard a story on the radio about the FBI wanting a list of concealed weapons permit holders from the state of Missouri and the state of Missouri attorney general told the FBI to go get fucked.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

https://www.dailywire.com/news/sheri...-with-the-ship

L337TurboZ

iTrader: (1)

So are they going to outlaw oil filters? I've heard of those being used as suppressors.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

This certainly does not help the cause.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...&ICID=ref_fark

You'd think with all the money we sent over there, their 10yo soldiers would have better weapons handling training.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Reminds me of the scene from the movie "1941" with Dan Aykroyd.

Supe

None of that would have happened if that RPG had a CA compliant fin grip on it.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

https://thereload.com/oregon-admits-...block-new-law/

Oregonians won't be able to legally buy guns after December 8th if their new ballot initiative goes into effect.

That's according to the Oregon Department of Justice (DOJ), which is tasked with defending Measure 114 in court. The DOJ's latest filing related to four cases against the law asks federal district judge Karin Immergut, a Trump appointee, to delay implementation of the permit-to-purchase and mandatory training requirements.

"[T]he State agrees that the Court should enter an order providing a limited window in which Oregonians will be able to purchase firearms even if they do not have a permit, while also allowing Oregonians to apply for and be issued permits," Brian Simmonds Marshall, Senior Assistant Attorney General, said in a filing.

The filing casts further doubt on the viability of the gun-control measure. After passing by just 1.6 percent, the measure came under immediate legal scrutiny from gun-rights advocates as supporters scrambled to explain how the law could possibly be implemented within 30 days of the vote. With the total elimination of legal gun sales looming, Oregonians have set new records by flooding gun stores ahead of the deadline. If the DOJ delaying request fails and gun sales in the state are wholly eliminated, the law is unlikely to survive the multiple challenges to its constitutionality.

Oregon argued the delay is only necessary to overcome implementation issues. It said the underlying requirements are consistent with the Second Amendment.

"The State's position that Measure 114 is constitutional on its face remains the same," Marshall wrote. "As our briefing will explain, there is no basis to enjoin Measure 114's provisions governing the issuance of permits to purchase (§§ 4-5), its restrictions on large-capacity magazines (§ 11), or various provisions requiring completed background checks when firearms are purchased."

However, every major gun-rights group in the country disagrees. The National Rifle Association, Gun Owners of America, and Firearms Policy Coalition or their state affiliates have all filed suit against the initiative. Alan Gottlieb, whose Second Amendment Foundation has also filed suit against the law, said the DOJ's filing proves the law is inoperable.

"Even the Oregon Attorney General has to admit that the law is unworkable," Gottlieb told The Reload. "We think it needs to be thrown out by the court in total."

The Oregon DOJ told Judge Immergut the main issue lies with developing and implementing the required firearms training by the deadline.

"Local law enforcement partners have made it clear that necessary pieces of the permit to purchase system will not be in place by December 8," Marshall wrote. "Most significantly, Measure 114 requires a person applying for a permit to purchase a firearm to present their police chief or county sheriff with "proof of completion of a firearm safety course." § 4(1)(b)(D). After the Court's December 2 hearing, the state learned from local law enforcement agencies that one element of the safety course--an "[i]n-person demonstration ... before an instructor certified by a law enforcement agency," Measure 114 § 4(8)(c)(D)--will not be available by December 8."

The state said it could take months beyond the December 8th deadline to make a workable system under the law.

"As such, it has become clear that the police chiefs and sheriffs (who serve as the sole permitting agents under Measure 114) will not be prepared to issue permits on December 8," Marshall wrote. "Executive Director Myers represented that it will take 'at least another month' to prepare an operational permit system."

Judge Immergut is scheduled to issue a decision on whether to temporarily block the law sometime this week

dleavitt

iTrader: (1)

It's a bunch of bullshit. Supposedly Judge Immergut is supposed to reach a decision regarding an injunction today, hoping for the best. Been rounding out my collection the past few weeks just in case though. Regardless of what happens with the constitutionality of the law local gun shops will be in trouble as there have probably been at least 18 months worth of gun sales in the last few weeks.

dleavitt

iTrader: (1)

AAaaaannnndddd...motion denied. Permit process delayed for 30 days, which is little comfort. Guess people who are waiting on their background checks for guns with >10 round magazines are screwed, since the magazines are now illegal. I'll be fine on mine (I'm only waiting on a CZ 457 in .17 HMR), but there were about 50,000 people in the queue last night.

xturner

Apparently, The NY Times has some concerns about the 12-Gauge AR-15 -

L337TurboZ

iTrader: (1)

I mean in all fairness....

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

Also 16 gauge and .410 by the picture of ammo.

spr19

in a ideal world where there is moral education, than yes, otherwise Im pro gun but RPG might be too much

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

Dude, when you're gonna say something that stupid, at least take the time to punctuate.

An RPG is essentially a single-shot weapon. You're limited by the number of rounds you can carry and reload time varies, but 15-20 seconds assuming you're in lab conditions with no additional stressors, nobody shooting back, not in a moving vehicle, etc... to take a follow-on shot. They're not exactly stealthy, so your firing position is immediately known to the enemy. You don't bother to reload, instead just scoot and set up somewhere else. This is assuming your goal is to survive whatever event you're involved in.

On the other hand, even a common 9mm handgun (Glock 17, 17rd standard magazine) is way more "dangerous" than an RPG. The average child can carry a dozen spare mags and with even a little training, get reload to target times down to 3-5 seconds. And don't forget, an RPG-7 (this is the one we're talking about) is an anti-armor weapon. There are anti-personnel rounds available, but the supply is limited and countries that have them don't normally distribute to front-line troops. I suppose if you could buy them at Bass Pro, there'd be a selection of warheads and fusing systems available, but the blast radius is fairly small (it's just a slightly larger grenade) and there are other "better" ways of killing a lot of people. And they're not very accurate in case you haven't played a lot of Call of Duty. True, a 9mm cant penetrate a tank, but unless you're Whistlin Diesel, nobody has one of those.

Essentially, in this ideal world you mention, the moral education handed down by the government would teach that EVERYBODY should have an RPG because they're way safer than normal guns.

Good thing we live in 'MERICA!