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Old 12-07-2015, 09:17 AM   #1301
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:54 AM   #1302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
plus one word: inalienable.
But seriously...

Unless you're the president.

Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS
Now, here at home, we have to work together to address the challenge. There are several steps that Congress should take right away. To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a no- fly list is able to buy a gun. What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semiautomatic weapon? This is a matter of national security.

We also need to make it harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons, like the ones that were used in San Bernardino. I know there are some who reject any gun-safety measures, but the fact is that our intelligence and law-enforcement agencies, no matter how effective they are, cannot identify every would-be mass shooter, whether that individual was motivated by ISIL or some other hateful ideology.
Now, I'm torn here.

On the one hand, I do happen to sympathize with the notion that most people don't actually require a gun, or would even be competent to use one properly. (A well-regulated militia...)

On the other hand, I also support the Constitution of the United States, even though many people tend to subscribe to a rather tortured and half-blind interpretation of the Second Amendment.

And on the gripping hand, I'm not aware of the direct relevance of anything which BHO said in the above, as from what I can tell, neither of the perps in last week's massacre were on a no-fly list, or any watch list of any kind. They didn't even buy the two AR-15s themselves, a neighbor did.


That said, the President has directly called for the alienation of certain rights to individuals whose names appear on a list compiled by an ADMINISTRATIVE agency, not a JUDICIAL one. That is the very definition of violating due process, inasmuch as one presumes gun-ownership to be a fundamental liberty.

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Old 12-07-2015, 10:08 AM   #1303
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law makers make laws.

when you pass laws it looks good.

looking good is best.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:09 AM   #1304
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I keep thinking about what would happen if "they" decided to regulate the purchase of "hacking-style" computers in order to address computer hacking / fraud.



Or if the civilian ownership of "racing-style" cars was outlawed.

No vehicle offered for use in the state of California may be equipped with "racing-type" components, including any of the following:
  • Roll bars or cages anchored to the frame at four or more points, or having provisions for the attachment of a seat belt
  • Parachute-style braking device(s)
  • Seat belts which attach to the body, chassis, or roll-cage of the vehicle at four or more points
  • Seats which are of a one-piece design, or are incapable of adjustment, by a seated occupant and without the use of tools, in both recline and fore-aft movement
  • Fire-extinguishing equipment located anywhere within the interior of the vehicle and / or accessible or operable by a seated occupant
  • Turbochargers, superchargers, and / or any other device intended to introduce air or oxygen-enriched gasses into the engine at a pressure higher than ambient (excludes diesel-powered commercial trucks when so equipped by the original manufacturer)
  • Shock absorbers, springs, struts, coilovers, and / or any other suspension component which is adjustable in damping pressure, spring tension, and / or static ride height by any means while installed on the vehicle.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 12-07-2015 at 10:44 AM. Reason: schpelling
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:10 AM   #1305
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The above would definitely stop teenagers from street-racing.

It's not like some random kid is going to go out and commit hooliganism in a stock Honda Civic. If they were, you'd have to restrict ownership of all cars in general.

Or, at least, require that all cars be registered with the government, and all car-owners be licensed to use them. No way in hell that sort of thing would fly...
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:11 AM   #1306
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this is why when people complain that Congress doesn't react fast enough and "pass laws" -- I think that's a good thing.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:25 AM   #1307
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Quote:
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The above would definitely stop teenagers from street-racing.

It's not like some random kid is going to go out and commit hooliganism in a stock Honda Civic. If they were, you'd have to restrict ownership of all cars in general.

Or, at least, require that all cars be registered with the government, and all car-owners be licensed to use them. No way in hell that sort of thing would fly...
On private property, you can own any sort of racing/ assault style car you want, and do whatever you want with it.
Have a private monster truck rally if you want. It isn't a requirement to have insurance or registration until you take it out on a public road.
Guns are similar in the sense that you have to jump trough the appropriate loopholes to obtain a permit to carry in public.
The major difference is that many states make this impossible for most people, while any asshat can obtain a drivers license.
It is also worth noting that the right of some form of mechanized/ grass fed conveyance is not mentioned in the constitution.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:33 AM   #1308
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
On private property, you can own any sort of racing/ assault style car you want, and do whatever you want with it.
Have a private monster truck rally if you want. It isn't a requirement to have insurance or registration until you take it out on a public road.
And that's the problem. Current car-laws do nothing but inconvenience legitimate, nonviolent car owners, while doing nothing to deter would-be car criminals.

If you allow racing-style cars to be sold for use on private property, a car criminal isn't going to care one whit that he's not allowed to take it out on the street. Before you know it, we're going to have Formula 1 and Winston Cup cars terrorizing the highways on a daily basis.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:36 AM   #1309
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:39 AM   #1310
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This morning, I was nearly killed by some bloodthirsty psycho driving with no lights on in the densest fog I've ever experience.
He should be placed on a no drive list.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:56 AM   #1311
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I hate comparing vehicles to weapons.

It's not a great comparison/correlation/metaphor.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:48 AM   #1312
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Old 12-07-2015, 04:00 PM   #1313
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I'm not sure that LaPierre understands what the term "gang banger" means.
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Old 12-07-2015, 05:07 PM   #1314
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I can totally see that no fly list being abused. (Hint IRS). Costs rediculous amounts of time/money to be removed from the list if accidentally put on it.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:21 AM   #1315
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:22 AM   #1316
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Originally Posted by stratosteve View Post
I can totally see that no fly list being abused. (Hint IRS). Costs rediculous amounts of time/money to be removed from the list if accidentally put on it.
They can't even stop people on a do-not-fly-list from boarding a plane, you think it'll stop them from buying a gun, or having someone else buy them a gun?

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Old 12-08-2015, 08:18 AM   #1317
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They can't even stop people on a do-not-fly-list from boarding a plane, you think it'll stop them from buying a gun, or having someone else buy them a gun?
Exactly. Someone legitimately on the no fly list will have the means to secure firearms no matter what law is created.

My beef with the no fly list is the current administration using it politically against it's enemies. Are you a tea party member? No fly. Did you just buy bulk ammunition? No fly. Have you voiced your displeasure with current administration on social media? No fly.

Then you ask for the reason you were put on said list. "No sir, that information is classified." File a FOIA and it gets denied. Eventually you will have to take .gov to court. Many thousands of dollars later, you may or may not resolve this.
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:20 AM   #1318
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Originally Posted by stratosteve View Post
My beef with the no fly list is the current administration using it politically against it's enemies. Are you a tea party member? No fly. Did you just buy bulk ammunition? No fly. Have you voiced your displeasure with current administration on social media? No fly.
whoa. almost a vaild reason FOR a 2nd amendment...

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Old 12-08-2015, 09:15 AM   #1319
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Obama now wants guns from these 47,000 people

Quote:
...Under Obama’s standard, even the late-Sen. Ted Kennedy, an ardent advocate of gun control while he served in Congress, would be blocked from purchasing a firearm.

In March 2004, Kennedy was stopped three times at airports in Washington, D.C., and Boston. Airline agents told the senator he couldn’t purchase a ticket because his name was on a list, according to USA Today.

“If they have that kind of difficulty with a member of Congress, how in the world are average Americans – who are getting caught up in this thing – how are they going to be treated fairly and not have their rights abused?” Kennedy asked then-Homeland Security undersecretary Asa Hutchinson.

Kennedy wasn’t alone. Many other unsuspecting Americans have had similar experiences. In 2014, Politico reported Fox News contributor Steve Hayes was listed in the federal terrorist database after he traveled to Istanbul for a cruise.

“When I went online to check in with Southwest, they wouldn’t let me. I figured it was some glitch,” he said. “Then I got to the airport and went to check in. The woman had a concerned look on her face. She brought over her supervisor and a few other people. Then they shut down the lane I was in, took me to the side, told me I was a selectee and scrawled [something] on my ticket.”

Hayes said a Southwest Airlines agent later informed him that he was on the government’s terrorist watchlist.

...

Many children under the age of five have generated false positives when their names were listed among those on the No-Fly List. One 18-month-old baby was pulled off a JetBlue flight in 2012.

In 2003 , 71-year-old Milwaukee nun Sister Virgine Lawinger had her travel plans interrupted.

In 2006, a U.S. Marine had his trip home to Minneapolis from Iraq delayed when his name appeared on the list.

Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said he was stopped between 35 and 40 times in only a year after his name appeared on the list in 2003.

Even members of the Federal Air Marshal Service said they were blocked from boarding planes in 2008 after their names appeared in the database.

One marshal told the Washington Times it’s “a major problem, where guys are denied boarding by the airline.”

“In some cases, planes have departed without any coverage because the airline employees were adamant they would not fly,” said the air marshal, who requested anonymity due to the nature of his job. “I’ve seen guys actually being denied boarding.”

Another air marshal told the Times one agent had been “getting harassed for six years because his exact name is on the no-fly list.”

Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., told CNN Sunday that most people on the No-Fly List don’t even belong there: “These are everyday Americans that have nothing to do with terrorism. … The majority of people on the No-Fly List are often times people that just basically have the same name as somebody else who doesn’t belong on the No-Fly List.”
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:54 AM   #1320
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lol.

72 DHS Employees on Terrorist Watch List - Washington Free Beacon

Quote:
At least 72 employees at the Department of Homeland Security are listed on the U.S. terrorist watch list, according to a Democratic lawmaker.

Rep. Stephen Lynch (D., Mass.) disclosed that a congressional investigation recently found that at least 72 people working at DHS also “were on the terrorist watch list.”

“Back in August, we did an investigation—the inspector general did—of the Department of Homeland Security, and they had 72 individuals that were on the terrorist watch list that were actually working at the Department of Homeland Security,” Lynch told Boston Public Radio.

“The [former DHS] director had to resign because of that,” he said.

DHS continues to fail inspections aimed at determining the efficiency of its internal safety mechanisms, as well as its efforts to protect the nation.

TSA is run by terrorists.
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