Gun Rights: Should you be allowed to own an RPG?
07-19-2018, 04:02 PM
#1742
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This is an interesting article. It helped change my opinion on open carry.
The Pro Liberty Choice: Dispelling The Myths Of Open Carry | The Daily Caller
The Pro Liberty Choice: Dispelling The Myths Of Open Carry | The Daily Caller
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07-19-2018, 07:11 PM
#1743
I never came across an open-carrier in public that I didn't immediately judge. They all resemble one stereotype or another... the skinny hero wannabe in camo and a Hi-Point... the fat biker wannabe in leather with a cheap 1911... the trying-to-be-professional with a flat-top, chino's+izod carrying a M&P Shield... the IDGAF redneck with a wallet-chain and anything-but-a-Glock... it goes on and on.
I just never see a normal dude OC'ing... just some regular guy out there who I normally wouldn't have given a second thought to. EVERYBODY I see OC'ing, I probably would have noticed even without the gun because of how they look, act, dress, present... they all stand out as dipshits to start with.
The reason firearms instructors don't recommend OC'ing is because it makes you stand out. Standing out in almost all circumstances is bad. The first rule of gunfighting is not "bring a gun"... it's "don't get in one". Blending in, nothing special going on here, nobody notice me, I'm just going about my business... etc... Criminals are looking for a target, something about a mark they can expoit. If you look and talk and walk and act like everybody else, while maintaining solid situational awareness, you give nothing away. If you're carrying a gun, he'll notice, and his first thought will not be to move on... he'll evaluate you just like he does eveyrbody else that catches his eye for whatever reason and decide if there's something to exploit. Rule#1, stay invisible.
I just never see a normal dude OC'ing... just some regular guy out there who I normally wouldn't have given a second thought to. EVERYBODY I see OC'ing, I probably would have noticed even without the gun because of how they look, act, dress, present... they all stand out as dipshits to start with.
The reason firearms instructors don't recommend OC'ing is because it makes you stand out. Standing out in almost all circumstances is bad. The first rule of gunfighting is not "bring a gun"... it's "don't get in one". Blending in, nothing special going on here, nobody notice me, I'm just going about my business... etc... Criminals are looking for a target, something about a mark they can expoit. If you look and talk and walk and act like everybody else, while maintaining solid situational awareness, you give nothing away. If you're carrying a gun, he'll notice, and his first thought will not be to move on... he'll evaluate you just like he does eveyrbody else that catches his eye for whatever reason and decide if there's something to exploit. Rule#1, stay invisible.
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07-20-2018, 08:56 AM
#1744
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I never came across an open-carrier in public that I didn't immediately judge. They all resemble one stereotype or another... the skinny hero wannabe in camo and a Hi-Point... the fat biker wannabe in leather with a cheap 1911... the trying-to-be-professional with a flat-top, chino's+izod carrying a M&P Shield... the IDGAF redneck with a wallet-chain and anything-but-a-Glock... it goes on and on.
I just never see a normal dude OC'ing... just some regular guy out there who I normally wouldn't have given a second thought to. EVERYBODY I see OC'ing, I probably would have noticed even without the gun because of how they look, act, dress, present... they all stand out as dipshits to start with.
The reason firearms instructors don't recommend OC'ing is because it makes you stand out. Standing out in almost all circumstances is bad. The first rule of gunfighting is not "bring a gun"... it's "don't get in one". Blending in, nothing special going on here, nobody notice me, I'm just going about my business... etc... Criminals are looking for a target, something about a mark they can expoit. If you look and talk and walk and act like everybody else, while maintaining solid situational awareness, you give nothing away. If you're carrying a gun, he'll notice, and his first thought will not be to move on... he'll evaluate you just like he does eveyrbody else that catches his eye for whatever reason and decide if there's something to exploit. Rule#1, stay invisible.
I just never see a normal dude OC'ing... just some regular guy out there who I normally wouldn't have given a second thought to. EVERYBODY I see OC'ing, I probably would have noticed even without the gun because of how they look, act, dress, present... they all stand out as dipshits to start with.
The reason firearms instructors don't recommend OC'ing is because it makes you stand out. Standing out in almost all circumstances is bad. The first rule of gunfighting is not "bring a gun"... it's "don't get in one". Blending in, nothing special going on here, nobody notice me, I'm just going about my business... etc... Criminals are looking for a target, something about a mark they can expoit. If you look and talk and walk and act like everybody else, while maintaining solid situational awareness, you give nothing away. If you're carrying a gun, he'll notice, and his first thought will not be to move on... he'll evaluate you just like he does eveyrbody else that catches his eye for whatever reason and decide if there's something to exploit. Rule#1, stay invisible.
That being said...I'm not sure I understand the second part. Criminals are fundamentally bullies, and bullies always avoid engaging people who are prepared to defend themselves. Unless they plan on mass murder, which I think is not the norm, it seems highly unlikely that a criminal will deliberately engage someone who is obviously able and ready to defend himself. There's a reason all these shootings occur in gun free zones.
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07-20-2018, 05:24 PM
#1745
That being said...I'm not sure I understand the second part. Criminals are fundamentally bullies, and bullies always avoid engaging people who are prepared to defend themselves. Unless they plan on mass murder, which I think is not the norm, it seems highly unlikely that a criminal will deliberately engage someone who is obviously able and ready to defend himself. There's a reason all these shootings occur in gun free zones.
Your average street criminal, or zombie, or just some dude you pissed off... in whatever form or location they operate, has a different motive other than simple murder, or perhaps in addition to murder. Just because a person OC's doesn't mean that the bad guy in your scenario sees a "person able to defend themselves". It also doesn't mean that a person is "able and ready" to defend themselves. In fact, the many easily google'able stories of OC'ers getting attacked is evidence of this... as are the many stories people who actually had a gun to defend themselves and still got killed.
If this still doesn't make sense, then you have to start over with your thought process about your personal protection plan. Just like protecting your house, the gun in your nightstand is the very last line in a multi-layered defense. Solid home construction, good locks, an alarm, a dog, sanitized yard, maybe some cameras, aware neighbors who pay attention, routine discussions with your family about what to do when there's a "bump in the night"... and then finally, your gun.
When not in your home, you should still have the same layered approach. OC relies on your belief that a bad guy, after seeing your gun and sizing you up (which he will do), decides there's no angle to exploit and moves on. This is why nobody advocates that OC is a solid tool in your personal security approach, because professionals who teach **** like that don't have any "HEY, LOOK AT ME, I'M OC'ing and YOU BETTER LEAVE ME ALONE" complex. Instead, professoinals teach that the best way to avoid being a victim is to never get noticed by a criminal... OC'ing gets you noticed, and your assumption that the bad guy will shake in his boots until you've passed by is fundamentally unsound. Rule #1 is always be invisible.
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07-20-2018, 05:48 PM
#1746
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Garden variety **** birds are not like spree shooters at all. Spree shooters pick gun free zones because they plan and prepare and have an actual goal in mind.
Ordinary criminals don't plan **** out, they don't consider the consequences and they tend to live in the moment a lot of the time, especially if they are drunk or high. I think that seeing a housewife wife a gun dangling out of a cheap holster while she's distracted by her kids would probably be a tempting target for a certain variety of aggressive scumbag. That being said, the vast majority of criminals are not the confrontational type and would rather steal from unlocked cars in the Walmart parking lot than try to carjack people with their own guns.
It's hard to make generalizations about criminals, but having interacted with as many as I have, I'd rather have a concealed gun as a surprise for the really dangerous ones, the type that will basically force you to shoot them. The vast majority you won't need a gun to scare off, but the ones you will need a gun for, you don't want them knowing where it is when things start off.
Ordinary criminals don't plan **** out, they don't consider the consequences and they tend to live in the moment a lot of the time, especially if they are drunk or high. I think that seeing a housewife wife a gun dangling out of a cheap holster while she's distracted by her kids would probably be a tempting target for a certain variety of aggressive scumbag. That being said, the vast majority of criminals are not the confrontational type and would rather steal from unlocked cars in the Walmart parking lot than try to carjack people with their own guns.
It's hard to make generalizations about criminals, but having interacted with as many as I have, I'd rather have a concealed gun as a surprise for the really dangerous ones, the type that will basically force you to shoot them. The vast majority you won't need a gun to scare off, but the ones you will need a gun for, you don't want them knowing where it is when things start off.
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07-25-2018, 10:47 AM
#1747
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FEDERAL COURT RULES THAT IT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO OPENLY CARRY A FIREARM
By Kevin Ryan
A three-judge panel on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the Second Amendment protects the right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense. The 2-1 ruling found that Hawaii violated plaintiff George Young’s rights when he was denied a permit to openly carry a loaded gun in public to protect himself. A lower court had sided with Hawaii, which argued that the Second Amendment only applied to guns kept in homes.
Hawaii is one of several states that has all but banned the carry of firearms outside the home. It currently restricts concealed carry to law enforcement and those engaged in the business of protecting life and property, and requires a permit for open carry, which state officials may deny even if applicants pass a background check and training requirements. Hawaii did not issue a single gun-carry permit to any civilians in 2017 or 2016.
“The Second Amendment does protect a right to carry a firearm in public for self-defense,” Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain wrote for the majority. “We would thus flout the Constitution if we were to hold that, ‘in regulating the manner of bearing arms, the authority of [the State] has no other limit than its own discretion.’ While many respectable scholars and activists might find virtue in a firearms-carry regime that restricts the right to a privileged few, ‘the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.’”
He went on to say Hawaii's gun-carry ban “violated the core of the Second Amendment and was void under any level of scrutiny.”
The right to bear arms has come under judicial attack in recent years. The Supreme Court’s Heller ruling, while affirming the right to keep firearms in the home, left open a degree of uncertainty over the right to bear arms in public. Subsequent lower court rulings have found both for and against the right to carry. Two years ago, an 11 judge panel of the 9th Circuit ruled that there’s no right to carry concealed guns in public, striking down a 3 judge panel opinion that was also written by O'Scannlain. This week’s ruling may face a similar fate, as Hawaii can request an 11 judge review of this appeal.
9th Circuit appeals are ruled on by a 3 judge panel, randomly selected from the 40 circuit and senior judges. All 3 randomly chosen judges in this week’s case were Republican-appointed. But the full court membership leans heavily to the left, with 25 appointed by Democratic administrations, and 15 appointed by Republicans. So if Hawaii requests a full 11 judge hearing, chances are there will be more Democrats on the panel, and this ruling will be overturned.
That would leave the country in a position where both concealed and open carry are ruled not constitutionally protected. Either way, we may have to wait until the Supreme Court decides to take up a case on the issue before it can be resolved.
By Kevin Ryan
A three-judge panel on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the Second Amendment protects the right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense. The 2-1 ruling found that Hawaii violated plaintiff George Young’s rights when he was denied a permit to openly carry a loaded gun in public to protect himself. A lower court had sided with Hawaii, which argued that the Second Amendment only applied to guns kept in homes.
Hawaii is one of several states that has all but banned the carry of firearms outside the home. It currently restricts concealed carry to law enforcement and those engaged in the business of protecting life and property, and requires a permit for open carry, which state officials may deny even if applicants pass a background check and training requirements. Hawaii did not issue a single gun-carry permit to any civilians in 2017 or 2016.
“The Second Amendment does protect a right to carry a firearm in public for self-defense,” Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain wrote for the majority. “We would thus flout the Constitution if we were to hold that, ‘in regulating the manner of bearing arms, the authority of [the State] has no other limit than its own discretion.’ While many respectable scholars and activists might find virtue in a firearms-carry regime that restricts the right to a privileged few, ‘the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.’”
He went on to say Hawaii's gun-carry ban “violated the core of the Second Amendment and was void under any level of scrutiny.”
The right to bear arms has come under judicial attack in recent years. The Supreme Court’s Heller ruling, while affirming the right to keep firearms in the home, left open a degree of uncertainty over the right to bear arms in public. Subsequent lower court rulings have found both for and against the right to carry. Two years ago, an 11 judge panel of the 9th Circuit ruled that there’s no right to carry concealed guns in public, striking down a 3 judge panel opinion that was also written by O'Scannlain. This week’s ruling may face a similar fate, as Hawaii can request an 11 judge review of this appeal.
9th Circuit appeals are ruled on by a 3 judge panel, randomly selected from the 40 circuit and senior judges. All 3 randomly chosen judges in this week’s case were Republican-appointed. But the full court membership leans heavily to the left, with 25 appointed by Democratic administrations, and 15 appointed by Republicans. So if Hawaii requests a full 11 judge hearing, chances are there will be more Democrats on the panel, and this ruling will be overturned.
That would leave the country in a position where both concealed and open carry are ruled not constitutionally protected. Either way, we may have to wait until the Supreme Court decides to take up a case on the issue before it can be resolved.
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07-31-2018, 08:19 AM
#1748
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when did FL become a blue state?
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/0...e-constitution
Although the laws are intended to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of dangerous people, some feel the Risk Protection Act violates citizens’ rights.
“I think we’re doing this because it makes us feel safer,” attorney Kendra Parris said. “It violates the constitution.”
Parris, who represents some citizens targeted by the risk protection orders, said the law is written so vaguely that it is impacting people who are not really a threat to anyone.
“These are individuals who are often exercising their First Amendment rights online, who are protecting constitutionally protected speech online,” Parris told WFTS. “Maybe it was odious, maybe people didn’t like it, but they were hit with a risk protection order because of it.”
...
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/0...e-constitution
Hundreds of guns seized under Florida ‘red flag’ law: ‘It violates the Constitution’
...Although the laws are intended to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of dangerous people, some feel the Risk Protection Act violates citizens’ rights.
“I think we’re doing this because it makes us feel safer,” attorney Kendra Parris said. “It violates the constitution.”
Parris, who represents some citizens targeted by the risk protection orders, said the law is written so vaguely that it is impacting people who are not really a threat to anyone.
“These are individuals who are often exercising their First Amendment rights online, who are protecting constitutionally protected speech online,” Parris told WFTS. “Maybe it was odious, maybe people didn’t like it, but they were hit with a risk protection order because of it.”
...
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08-01-2018, 02:52 AM
#1750
By letting the media focus on the very scary sounding "3D PRINTED GUN OMG CLICK HERE FOR DEATH!!!", they allow the uninformed anti-gun types see the tree and not the forest. So they're gonna sit it out. It's pretty stupid really, plans for dozens of different guns have already been out for years now... anybody who knows there way around REDDIT wouldn't have a problem getting them. I could go on about how you still need a metal barrel-liner and metal firing pin, and no plans that I've seen would last more than a couple rounds or have any mechanism for easy reloading. They're pretty ******* stupid all around, kinda like bump-stocks.
The whole 3D printed gun thing reminds me about other examples of gun-hysteria over the years...
Try this... "That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me, you know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport metal detectors and probably costs more than what you make in a month."
I read somewhere that this one line cost Glock $20million dollars in damage control lawyers, despite Glock sales going through the roof. The fact there has never been a Glock7, or a gun made from porcelain by any company, mattered not.
How about Black Talon bullets sold by Winchester in the 80's... OMG COP-KILLER BULLETS MUST BAN!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon
How about teflon-coated bullets... AYFKM? Do you know that teflon actually makes it harder for bullets to penetrate kevlar. Not according to Deniro... who is ironically vocally anti-gun and not ironically a ****-Trump'er.
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08-01-2018, 07:22 AM
#1751
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Another interesting note is that you can possess a cap and ball revolver like a Confederate Navy replica concealed even without a concealed weapons permit. Don't quote me on this but I believe that those guns also fall outside of the regulations for firearms in many states. They certainly don't qualify as regular firearms under the federal laws.
They work quite well and have good enough accuracy inside of 20yds, which is all you need. My shaky hands could keep a 2 inch circle at that distance. Plenty powerful using black powder and you get six shots before it becomes a cudgel. And they are attractive on top of it all.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Piet...ver/740536.uts
$200 plus another hundred dollars in supporting supplies and you are in business. Note that it has 5 stars because the dang things work really well and are well made.
They work quite well and have good enough accuracy inside of 20yds, which is all you need. My shaky hands could keep a 2 inch circle at that distance. Plenty powerful using black powder and you get six shots before it becomes a cudgel. And they are attractive on top of it all.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Piet...ver/740536.uts
$200 plus another hundred dollars in supporting supplies and you are in business. Note that it has 5 stars because the dang things work really well and are well made.
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08-01-2018, 07:44 AM
#1752
Another interesting note is that you can possess a cap and ball revolver like a Confederate Navy replica concealed even without a concealed weapons permit. Don't quote me on this but I believe that those guns also fall outside of the regulations for firearms in many states. They certainly don't qualify as regular firearms under the federal laws.
They work quite well and have good enough accuracy inside of 20yds, which is all you need. My shaky hands could keep a 2 inch circle at that distance. Plenty powerful using black powder and you get six shots before it becomes a cudgel. And they are attractive on top of it all.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Piet...ver/740536.uts
$200 plus another hundred dollars in supporting supplies and you are in business. Note that it has 5 stars because the dang things work really well and are well made.
They work quite well and have good enough accuracy inside of 20yds, which is all you need. My shaky hands could keep a 2 inch circle at that distance. Plenty powerful using black powder and you get six shots before it becomes a cudgel. And they are attractive on top of it all.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Piet...ver/740536.uts
$200 plus another hundred dollars in supporting supplies and you are in business. Note that it has 5 stars because the dang things work really well and are well made.
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08-01-2018, 07:51 AM
#1753
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The way I understand it for NY, is that it's legal to own just the gun, unless you have the supplies (bullets) to actually load it. Then it becomes a firearm, and is subject to all handgun laws.
This may not be correct, but I really don't care. If they are gonna bust me for my inherited black powder colt, I have bigger problems.
This may not be correct, but I really don't care. If they are gonna bust me for my inherited black powder colt, I have bigger problems.
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08-01-2018, 05:55 PM
#1757
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Serious question: have you ever been to Florida?
I grew up there. It's a highly diverse state. The inhabitants, in order from north to south:
People who didn't notice this isn't Alabama, on welfare.
The state Legislature, and stoners.
Rednecks wearing normal pants, on welfare.
UF students (Student loans are slavery).
Rednecks wearing denim shorts, also on welfare.
The elderly poor (Medicare).
NASA and some other companies.
Tampons (welfare-class.)
Cubans who got tired of Miami, but still make good bread.
Tampons (gainfully employed, <10% of city population.)
More elderly poor (Medicare).
Naples, and the Thomas Edison museum.
The Seminole tribe.
Very large reptiles that want to eat you, and malaria.
More poverty (Do I have to say it?)
Moderately wealthy people with fake tans who managed to survive the 2008 crash with three of their seven mortgages intact.
Yet more poverty (ditto.)
Little Port-au-Prince (formerly Little Havana, but the Cubans all moved to Tampa.)
Highly successful drug dealers.
Viperormiata.
Feral Chickens.
The Southernmost Point Buoy which all the tourists want a selfie of.
I grew up there. It's a highly diverse state. The inhabitants, in order from north to south:
People who didn't notice this isn't Alabama, on welfare.
The state Legislature, and stoners.
Rednecks wearing normal pants, on welfare.
UF students (Student loans are slavery).
Rednecks wearing denim shorts, also on welfare.
The elderly poor (Medicare).
NASA and some other companies.
Tampons (welfare-class.)
Cubans who got tired of Miami, but still make good bread.
Tampons (gainfully employed, <10% of city population.)
More elderly poor (Medicare).
Naples, and the Thomas Edison museum.
The Seminole tribe.
Very large reptiles that want to eat you, and malaria.
More poverty (Do I have to say it?)
Moderately wealthy people with fake tans who managed to survive the 2008 crash with three of their seven mortgages intact.
Yet more poverty (ditto.)
Little Port-au-Prince (formerly Little Havana, but the Cubans all moved to Tampa.)
Highly successful drug dealers.
Viperormiata.
Feral Chickens.
The Southernmost Point Buoy which all the tourists want a selfie of.
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08-08-2018, 10:40 AM
#1759
Boost Pope
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I feel as though, if you are witnessing a mass-shooting, and you whip out your phone and record the event in portrait mode, you're nearly as guilty as the person doing the shooting.
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08-08-2018, 10:47 AM
#1760
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I sure am glad it was a Stop the Violence rally and not a gun-free zone. People could have been hurt if it was a gun-free zone.
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