Health Insurance
09-24-2017, 12:25 PM
#42
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
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cause the government is doing a stellar job at this right now?
never heard that argument before either. I've also never heard a leftist say the government should take over something before either, never have i ever...
i work for the federal government, i typically get my wrists slapped when i demand excellence.
never heard that argument before either. I've also never heard a leftist say the government should take over something before either, never have i ever...
i work for the federal government, i typically get my wrists slapped when i demand excellence.
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09-28-2017, 11:13 AM
#44
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Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
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I must admit, never thought of that. Then again, my libertarian side, could care less about an indivudals legal status, so long as they are been productive citizens. Funny, 6 years ago, I was but ready to quit my job as a Revenue Agent, to join the Border Patrol.
Now, I'm helping undocummented immigrants, as an advocate. Funny about those little twists in life!
Now, I'm helping undocummented immigrants, as an advocate. Funny about those little twists in life!
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09-28-2017, 11:20 AM
#45
Boost Czar
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That's always been my biggest issue. It's one thing if we all pay in, but those who benefit are the ones not paying in -- and the numbers for non-paying citizens is already staggering (a minority group is being oppressed). That's why I'm not as libertarian as others, I'm not for open borders.
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09-28-2017, 11:39 AM
#46
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There are far too many studies, showing how undocummented immigrants HELP the economy, as opposed to hurt the economy. All one has to do is to visit a construction site, a farm, a ranch or processing plant; and figure out why INS is always visiting those places. They are doing the jobs that NOBODY wants to do.
But, this is getting away from health care, and into social politics.
But, this is getting away from health care, and into social politics.
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09-28-2017, 12:04 PM
#48
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There are far too many studies, showing how undocummented immigrants HELP the economy, as opposed to hurt the economy. All one has to do is to visit a construction site, a farm, a ranch or processing plant; and figure out why INS is always visiting those places. They are doing the jobs that NOBODY wants to do.
But, this is getting away from health care, and into social politics.
But, this is getting away from health care, and into social politics.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.
-Thomas Sowell
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09-28-2017, 12:20 PM
#49
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Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
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But my statement stands true, you hardly see any "red blooded Americans", working the fields, building our offices and homes, and working at the meat processing plants. Why is that? That is a data point that is both reliable and verifiable.
Some poeple choose to see gloom and dome, even in the middle of Hawaiian Beach. No one can help people like that.
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09-28-2017, 12:33 PM
#51
Retired Mech Design Engr
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As Milton Friedman said, the reason illegal immigration has worked is because it is illegal. When you legalize the immigrants and let them get government benefits, the cost / benefit equations change drastically.
The constant threat of deportation keeps migrants underground, keeps them off welfare rolls, keeps their wages below that of legals, but still higher than said wages would be in their homeland.
I'm not saying it is a good system, but you cannot change a fundamental part of the system and expect the other parts to remain the same.
So, I agree that undocumenteds play a role in the economy. But if you advocate for them to become documented, especially en-mass, the existing studies will no longer apply.
The constant threat of deportation keeps migrants underground, keeps them off welfare rolls, keeps their wages below that of legals, but still higher than said wages would be in their homeland.
I'm not saying it is a good system, but you cannot change a fundamental part of the system and expect the other parts to remain the same.
So, I agree that undocumenteds play a role in the economy. But if you advocate for them to become documented, especially en-mass, the existing studies will no longer apply.
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09-28-2017, 12:47 PM
#52
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As Milton Friedman said, the reason illegal immigration has worked is because it is illegal. When you legalize the immigrants and let them get government benefits, the cost / benefit equations change drastically.
The constant threat of deportation keeps migrants underground, keeps them off welfare rolls, keeps their wages below that of legals, but still higher than said wages would be in their homeland.
I'm not saying it is a good system, but you cannot change a fundamental part of the system and expect the other parts to remain the same.
So, I agree that undocumenteds play a role in the economy. But if you advocate for them to become documented, especially en-mass, the existing studies will no longer apply.
The constant threat of deportation keeps migrants underground, keeps them off welfare rolls, keeps their wages below that of legals, but still higher than said wages would be in their homeland.
I'm not saying it is a good system, but you cannot change a fundamental part of the system and expect the other parts to remain the same.
So, I agree that undocumenteds play a role in the economy. But if you advocate for them to become documented, especially en-mass, the existing studies will no longer apply.
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09-28-2017, 02:01 PM
#54
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Sure does sound a lot like you think that all the brown people you see working are illegal. I work in the construction industry here in Florida and I can tell you most of them are actually here legally these days, even if they are brown skinned and don't speak English. After the huge construction boom went bust in 2007 and 2008 the work dried up for them and most of the illegals went home in a mass migration. They have not returned in great numbers in this area at least. It is very difficult to find labor currently. And it is more difficult to get here and to stay here as an illegal than it was in the early 2000s. That being said, I do know one illegal Guatemalan and one illegal from Oaxaca Mexico.
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09-28-2017, 02:12 PM
#55
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
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As Milton Friedman said, the reason illegal immigration has worked is because it is illegal. When you legalize the immigrants and let them get government benefits, the cost / benefit equations change drastically.
The constant threat of deportation keeps migrants underground, keeps them off welfare rolls, keeps their wages below that of legals, but still higher than said wages would be in their homeland.
I'm not saying it is a good system, but you cannot change a fundamental part of the system and expect the other parts to remain the same.
So, I agree that undocumenteds play a role in the economy. But if you advocate for them to become documented, especially en-mass, the existing studies will no longer apply.
The constant threat of deportation keeps migrants underground, keeps them off welfare rolls, keeps their wages below that of legals, but still higher than said wages would be in their homeland.
I'm not saying it is a good system, but you cannot change a fundamental part of the system and expect the other parts to remain the same.
So, I agree that undocumenteds play a role in the economy. But if you advocate for them to become documented, especially en-mass, the existing studies will no longer apply.
In addition, that's part of the reason "no one wants to do those jobs" because illegals have driven down wages to the point it's better to try to find other avenues of employment.
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09-28-2017, 02:28 PM
#56
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Aside: mt.net seems to have a smaller proportion of leftards than, um, other places I hang out (Silly Con Valley which does have more leftards than usual). Might this be more representative of the USA in general (i.e. are leftards the minority in the USA?), or more representative of the types of people who modify cars/miatas? Or did the leftards around here just get overwhelmed and just shut up?
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09-28-2017, 02:29 PM
#57
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There is a fourth option. It's not a popular one, but it has its basis on the fact that the retail price of healthcare began to diverge sharply from the cost of healthcare when health insurance began to be used for health-maintenance.
Ask yourself what would happen to the price of an oil change if everyone started using their state-mandated car insurance to pay for oil changes?
Ask yourself what would happen to the price of an oil change if everyone started using their state-mandated car insurance to pay for oil changes?
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09-28-2017, 04:34 PM
#60
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It seems that the folks that I know that run with the scca tend to be more left-leaning and the people who run with NASA and some of the other de groups tend to be more right-leaning.
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