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Old 05-09-2013, 01:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
See, this is the faulty underlying assumption.

People who run small online businesses are not keeping track of any tax codes at all. They are simply utilizing the services of one of a handful of e-commerce portal providers, and those providers are already experts on the tax code.

An analogous comparison would be pointing out that most individuals do not prepare their own income tax returns directly- they either use a software package (Turbotax, H&R Block, etc) to prepare the return, or they employ the services of a tax preparer to whom they just hand a pile of paperwork and walk away. Thus, the hundreds of tiny year-to-year changes in the income tax code aren't really noticeable to most people, since they utilize the services of a third-party expert whose job it is to absorb that responsibility.

Same principle applies here. The owners of small online businesses won't have to change anything, because they are already paying someone else to manage their e-commerce functions, including the assay of sales tax.
Right, I understand that no businesses will PERSONALLY have to deal with it. But are you telling me that the e-commerce services won't charge extra for this now? I find that hard to believe.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:56 PM   #22
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Yeah. I've never worked at a business with a controller or CFO either.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Yeah, I find it ironic that "we" (as a broad generalization) tend to rally around individual mom-n-pop small businesses as a cause célèbre, shouting about how box-box stores are killing them and so forth.

Now, we're arguing against something which would directly benefit these mom-n-pop operators, by forcing their online competitors to play fair.
So Amazon and Wal-Mart are backing this bill out of a sense of honor and fair play?

Also, I'm curious about these "box-box" stores.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Fortunately for (really) small businesses, annual revenue under $1m online is exempted from this requirement.

Of course, that exemption kind of destroys the idea that this is about equal enforcement of tax law. It's really about giant online retailers forcing compliance and audit costs onto smaller online retailers.
It should also be noted that Amazon has all sorts of exemptions from paying sales taxes in states that it operates in due to incentives for job creation. But to be honest, I am not really seeing the big issue. As Joe pointed out the cost should be minimal if retailers use the proper software to calculate and remit the taxes.

I also agree with the fact that brick and mortar stores will not be saved by this tax. It is not like amazon is only cheaper because of the tax savings. It is cheaper because it doesn't need to maintain the retail outlets and staff to operate them. It just needs a central warehouse and a webpage. Businesses need to realize that a strong online presence is necessary in today's market if you are selling products and not just services.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
That seemed a very unpersuasive essay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Because Statist?

Fundamentally you believe in the elitist view that society can be improved by engineering it and exercising top-down control.


Because I felt his argument was very unpersuasive, you have determined that I:
  • agree with the legislation
  • think the law is appropriate
  • think the tax is appropriate
  • am a Statist who believes that top-down governmental control is both appropriate and beneficial

Now you are just being ridiculous, but not in a fun way.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #26
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Also, I'm curious about these "box-box" stores.


.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
So Amazon and Wal-Mart are backing this bill out of a sense of honor and fair play?
Seriously?



This is how free-market capitalism works in the presence of a representative democracy.

Were it to be any other way, I would accept that as evidence in support of a conspiracy / secret cabal / anticompetative collusion / etc.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #28
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Seriously?

This is how free-market capitalism works in the presence of a representative democracy.
I didn't claim otherwise, and I certainly didn't suggest that any conspiracy was at play here. Various parties support and oppose bills for all kinds of reasons; I don't think I was out of line to point out that those pushing the bill may be doing so for self-serving reasons.

My point was simply that you think this bill will somehow benefit "mom-and-pop" businesses in competition with massive chain and online retailers.

So when I see that Amazon and Wal-Mart openly support the internet sales tax bill, I have to question who has a better grasp on the potential effects of proposed tax legislation: Joe Perez, or the people at Amazon and Wal-Mart who were hired specifically for the purpose of evaluating future tax legislation.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:48 PM   #29
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Wal-Mart already has retail locations in every state - It doesn't make any sense - AT ALL - for them to oppose interstate internet taxes. If I can buy it today for the same price at both walmart.com and momnpop.com, walmart.com will always have to charge a sales tax, and momnpop.com will only have to charge a sales tax to 1 out of every 50+ transactions, therefore making momnpop.com cheaper. Wal-mart, by backing the internet sales tax, is simply raising everyone elses prices to make their own pricing more competitive.

As for Amazon, if they already have a software developed to support 10k different tax districts and can profit by selling this software to transaction management companies, then they too should support the tax requirements.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Fortunately for (really) small businesses, annual revenue under $1m online is exempted from this requirement.
I was thinking about this the other day. So, if I buy something from "a guy" who is essentially a "one man business" selling widgets on ebay, will there be sales tax?
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:13 PM   #31
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I was thinking about this the other day. So, if I buy something from "a guy" who is essentially a "one man business" selling widgets on ebay, will there be sales tax?
His responsibility to collect a sales tax would depend on whether his annual revenue exceeds $1m.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:19 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
I was thinking about this the other day. So, if I buy something from "a guy" who is essentially a "one man business" selling widgets on ebay, will there be sales tax?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
His responsibility to collect a sales tax would depend on whether his annual revenue exceeds $1m.
And if he does not, then you are technically required to report the purchase and pay Use Tax on it directly to your state of residence (this hasn't changed in decades.)
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:53 PM   #33
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The idea was to help local brick and mortor stores compete with online retailers who had a selling advantage by not charging sales tax. Will it fix things? probably not and most likely just create more problems.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
The idea was to help local brick and mortor stores compete with online retailers who had a selling advantage by not charging sales tax.
I thought the idea was to recover the tax revenue which states have increasingly lost due to noncompliance with the existing use-tax laws by individuals.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:15 AM   #35
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The idea was to help local brick and mortor stores compete with online retailers who had a selling advantage by not charging sales tax. Will it fix things? probably not and most likely just create more problems.
If this were the case then they'd be asking their state to remove sales taxes from the state all together. This is the only logical solution to what youre suggesting. Real tax competition.

it has nothing to do with business owners and everything to do with revenue collection.

they might "say" that's why they are doing it, but every politican needs a strawman to sell thier shitty policy to the useful idiots.
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