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Old 10-17-2012, 03:20 AM   #1
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Default Leaked Debate Agreement Shows Both Obama and Romney are Master Debaters

Leaked Debate Agreement Shows Both Obama and Romney are Sniveling Cowards

Time's Mark Halperin has made himself useful for once by obtaining, and publishing, a copy of the 21-page memorandum of understanding that the Obama and Romney campaigns negotiated with the Commission on Presidential Debates establishing the rules governing this month's presidential and vice presidential face-offs. The upshot: Both campaigns are terrified at anything even remotely spontaneous happening.

They aren't permitted to ask each other questions, propose pledges to each other, or walk outside a "predesignated area." And for the town-hall-style debate tomorrow night, the audience members posing questions aren't allowed to ask follow-ups (their mics will be cut off as soon as they get their questions out). Nor will moderator Candy Crowley.

Most bizarrely, given the way the debates have played out, the rules actually appear to forbid television coverage from showing reaction shots of the candidates: "To the best of the Commission's abilities, there will be no TV cut-aways to any candidate who is not responding to a question while another candidate is answering a question or to a candidate who is not giving a closing statement while another candidate is doing so." The "best of the Commission's abilities" must be rather feeble, seeing as how almost every moment of the two debates so far was televised in split-screen, clearly showing shots of a "candidate who is not responding to a question while another candidate is answering a question."

Which means some of the rules below that both campaigns stipulated to in a desperate attempt to wring any serendipity out of the events may be honored in the breach:
"The candidates may not ask each other direct questions during any of the four debates."
"The candidates shall not address each other with proposed pledges."
"At no time during the October 3 First Presidential debate shall either candidate move from his designated area behing the respective podium."
For the October 16 town-hall-style debate, "the moderator will not ask follow-up questions or comment on either the questions asked by the audience or the answers of the candidates during the debate...."
"The audience members shall not ask follow-up questions or otherwise participate in the extended discussion, and the audience member's microphone shall be turned off after he or she completes asking the questions."
"[T]he Commission shall take appropriate steps to cut-off the microphone of any...audience member who attempts to pose any question or statement different than that previously posed to the moderator for review."
"No candidate may reference or cite any specific individual sitting in a debate audience (other than family members) at any time during a debate."
For the town-hall debate: "Each candidate may move about in a pre-designated area, as proposed by the Commission and approved by each campaign, and may not leave that area while the debate is underway."

Here's the full document:

The 2012 Debates - Memorandum of Understanding Between the Obama and Romney Campaigns
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:26 AM   #2
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Here's more - a contract that they won't debate any 3rd party candidates.

Secret Debate Contract Reveals Obama and Romney Campaigns Exclude Third Parties, Control Questions
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:29 AM   #3
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How does that make them sniveling?

The rules make total sense to me, and seem to be aimed toward fairness. I would screen audience questions before hand, and follow up questions would be the candidates arguing with an audience member, not each other. The TV shots rule makes sense too, the point is to listen to the candidate's response, not hope for a weird face from the other.

You've gone and made me break my rule of staying the **** out of this section.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:11 AM   #4
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The rules seem to be aimed toward avoiding situation which require junior high level debate skills or even general intellignece. Both of these "candidates" are so bad they cannot even engage in a dialogue, nor a worthy opponent.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:24 AM   #5
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How does that make them sniveling?

The rules make total sense to me, and seem to be aimed toward fairness. I would screen audience questions before hand, and follow up questions would be the candidates arguing with an audience member, not each other. The TV shots rule makes sense too, the point is to listen to the candidate's response, not hope for a weird face from the other.

You've gone and made me break my rule of staying the **** out of this section.
I'd like to address this but it's neither an approved post nor am I acknowledging follow-up questions. Sorry.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:34 AM   #6
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You people do realize that agreements like this are incredibly common in political debates right?
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I'd like to address this but it's neither an approved post nor am I acknowledging follow-up questions. Sorry.
zing..




I mean... I understand how this could have been implemented to begin with.. but honestly, after reading this... it gets way to restrictive to the point that it's no longer a debate, it's a planned, categorized discussion. Facts have already been drawn up for the candidates, they are warmed up for the questions (which were idiotically cupcake status) and any sort of movement by any of the candidates to put either of them into a mental checkmate was squashed. (Although... as an observationalist... I'd have to say Romney is a more dominate force on the debate floor... even if he's spewing factually inaccuracies)


I say feed them poisioned ****** and eliminate the electoral college (although that honestly... won't change much)

And these backpocket networks need to stop too...
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:44 AM   #8
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I would like to see Katie master debate the candidates.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:52 AM   #9
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Best thing to come of the last couple debate things was the Free Pizza offer.

I really struggle with apathy when it comes to elections, I have not felt my vote counts since I came of voting age. As I get older... I feel that even more.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
Best thing to come of the last couple debate things was the Free Pizza offer.

I really struggle with apathy when it comes to elections, I have not felt my vote counts since I came of voting age. As I get older... I feel that even more.
Must... break... the... cycle...

Vote for someone you genuinely believe is right. An informed vote matters... and setting the example will simply lead others to be better informed on subjects and policies.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:03 AM   #11
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Romney definitely asked Obama a direct question last night. Maybe twice.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jeff_man View Post
I would like to see Katie master debate the candidates.
Katie does hilarious **** to people in arguments, lol. She cannot attend my office social gatherings, lol. "Why did that girl with the rainbow hair make me argue with myself?"
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by dk wolf View Post
Must... break... the... cycle...

Vote for someone you genuinely believe is right. An informed vote matters... and setting the example will simply lead others to be better informed on subjects and policies.
My informed vote is to not vote. I can't support the crappy candidates being once again foisted upon us by the money driven 2 party system. I swear I'm not a conspiracy person.... I just see the money driving this and the puppets that keep running.

The one person I found myself aligning with viewpoint wise... backed one of the idiots recently and is really a lost vote. This isn't helping me.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Here's more - a contract that they won't debate any 3rd party candidates.

Secret Debate Contract Reveals Obama and Romney Campaigns Exclude Third Parties, Control Questions

and here's how they wont:

Green Party candidate arrested outside debate site
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
You people do realize that agreements like this are incredibly common in political debates right?
At least some of them probably do. But the ones who post things like this thread in an attempt to concoct discord and confusion are hedging on the assumption that most people are probably unfamiliar with the process.

It's the same fundamental tactic which candidates themselves employ to create artificial fear / conflict and steer conversation away from productive vectors.

Eg:
If Robomney is elected president he will (do something which you are strongly opposed to, yet which the president doesn't have the authority to actually do.)

I was really floored by a brief segment I heard on NPR about a week ago. They were interviewing a couple of women on the subject of "women's rights" (whatever that means) and one of them, who self-identified as being pro-murder (aka pro-choice), actually said "Look, these people who are claiming that Romney will overturn Roe-v-Wade... The president simply can't overturn a court decision."

NPR is one of only three broadcast news agencies which I actually sort of trust a little bit, and this is coming from a broadcaster.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:42 PM   #16
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Good to know nothing's changed. I'll just keep doing what I do and they can keep doing....whatever it is they are doing. Where's the remote?
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
At least some of them probably do. But the ones who post things like this thread in an attempt to concoct discord and confusion are hedging on the assumption that most people are probably unfamiliar with the process.

It's the same fundamental tactic which candidates themselves employ to create artificial fear / conflict and steer conversation away from productive vectors.

Eg:
If Robomney is elected president he will (do something which you are strongly opposed to, yet which the president doesn't have the authority to actually do.)

I was really floored by a brief segment I heard on NPR about a week ago. They were interviewing a couple of women on the subject of "women's rights" (whatever that means) and one of them, who self-identified as being pro-murder (aka pro-choice), actually said "Look, these people who are claiming that Romney will overturn Roe-v-Wade... The president simply can't overturn a court decision."

NPR is one of only three broadcast news agencies which I actually sort of trust a little bit, and this is coming from a broadcaster.
BS. Romney has selected Robert Bork as his chief Judicial and Constitutional Advisor. That guy in his own book has basically stated Roe v. Wade should be overturned. He has distorted views of the 14th amendment and many other things it can be seen that he belives in government bans on contraception apposes civil rights, fair voting, right to privacy, and anti-trust laws. He supports the notion that Corporations are people.

Mitt Romney’s next Supreme Court nomination could quite possibly really **** this country over for a very long time.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:21 PM   #18
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Thomas Edison like to steal ideas, and had hired thugs to make sure they were now his ideas.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Mitt Romney’s next Supreme Court nomination could quite possibly really **** this country over for a very long time.
A) That would be his nominee... that has to clear Congress*... not Romney.

B) That assumes a number of other justices agree with Romney's nominee's stance on any given issue.


In summation: in no way will any one individual be able to overturn Roe vs Wade or any other Supreme Court precedent.


* Ya know, like Bork didn't.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
A) That would be his nominee... that has to clear Congress*... not Romney.

B) That assumes a number of other justices agree with Romney's nominee's stance on any given issue.


In summation: in no way will any one individual be able to overturn Roe vs Wade or any other Supreme Court precedent.


* Ya know, like Bork didn't.
Id rather not rely on a trust of congress to stop the Romney team from fuckign over the country.
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