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Old 08-18-2011, 10:05 AM   #1
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Default Michele Bachmann promises $2 gas!

Bwahahahaha good luck, hunnie.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:18 AM   #2
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And so far, that's a better economic plan than Obama himself has laid out...maybe he'll cut his vacation short is submit it? I mean, he always asks congress to do that.




Other headlines of the day in case you missed them:

Jobless Claims, Inflation Rise More Than Expected

One in five American children now living in poverty according to new report
14.7million children in families with income less than $21,756 a year

Child poverty increased in 38 states from 2000 to 2009
Child Poverty in U.S. Increased 18 pct in 9 Years

Record numbers of homeless people in Portland, ME

U.S. Government Investing $500M in Solar Power Projects—In India
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:27 AM   #3
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Sure 2 dollar gas could be achieved. But we'd have to be more assertive with our suppliers. That won't happen if the community organizer gets four more years.

Presently we go into an unstable country, sacrifice huge amounts of money and lives. And then leave the economics up to them. We should have more of a say in such things.

Trump made some good points on our Wars and how different and long lasting they are compared to the past. He also noted that we are way too weak with China. For instance when they examined out stealth technology after the Bin Laden raid they took photos, samples, and had experts present. Why not send them a bill and deduct that from the debts ha!?

The main idea is that we are walking around with a kick-me sign on our backs.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:48 AM   #4
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Serious question:

Does the price of gas *really* make that big of a difference? How many miles per week are some folks driving that $2.00 / gal vs. $3.50 / gal is considered a serious hardship?

Ok, I understand that there is a small segment of the population (we'll call them the Erin Brockovich factor, regardless of their accent or skin color) find themselves in a position where they "have to" commute 50 miles each way to work at some crappy minimum-wage job in order to support their three kids after their husband was murdered while distributing toys to orphans.

But for the majority of Americans, the middle-class, is paying $3.50 / gallon really going to have a significant impact on your life? I know that it's practically cliché, but you know those happy, prosperous Germans across the pond who are bitching and moaning about how successful they are and how all of southern Europe is trying to bleed them dry with their cowboy-style fiscal policy? They're paying 1,53€ / liter right now, which is about $8.30 / gal.

Seriously, apart from force of habit, what makes us Americans so special that we absolutely cannot tolerate paying the same for gasoline as everybody else, to the point where it is actually an electoral issue?! Presidents are supposed to be elected on matters of foreign relations and trade policy, not how much it costs you to top off the tank on your hybrid SUV.

This sort of thing actually makes me embarrassed to be an American.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:02 AM   #5
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I think of it more as a metaphor.


But comparing to EU is hard. Euro's problem is the taxes; they pay essentially the same price for crude oil.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:20 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I think of it more as a metaphor.
I don't. The retail price of gasoline is not rigidly coupled to any other economic indicator. Ok, so it does slightly alter the price of air travel, shipping of goods by truck, and so on. But it has no bearing on home prices or mortgage rates, and isn't that what everybody is fixated on right now?


Quote:
But comparing to EU is hard. Euro's problem is the taxes; they pay essentially the same price for crude oil.
It doesn't matter where the money goes after it leaves the consumer's wallet. $8 is $8, whether it's funding universal healthcare or buying private yachts for Saudi princes.

It really frustrates me that, here in the US, we pay so much less (both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of income) for gasoline, for taxes, for government service fees, and so on as compared to most other industrialized western nations, and yet in one breath we still **** and moan about how we pay "too much" for all of the above, while in the next, demanding that "the government" provide more and more in the way of "free" healthcare, "free" education, "free" social services, "free" mortgage bailouts, and so on. It is damned embarrassing.


So again, I ask, how does it actually matter to the majority of Americans whether gasoline costs $2, $4, or $8?
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:24 AM   #7
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If only we could have 3.50$/gallon over here, were at 9.04$/gal.
But as brain pointed out, about 70% taxes.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:24 AM   #8
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So again, I ask, how does it actually matter to the majority of Americans whether gasoline costs $2, $4, or $8?
yes, it does.

EDIT: How? Really?
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So again, I ask, how does it actually matter to the majority of Americans whether gasoline costs $2, $4, or $8?
yes, it's all realtive. I remember the good ol days of $0.99 87 octane back in 2000 or so.

I'm a frugal ************. The difference between $2 and $4 a gallon is significant to me. I have a weekly/monthly budget for certain expendatures, if gas prices go up, things like my food budget goes down, in this case it would be $20, and that buys a lot of 0.80c boxes of pasta. My bills are always the same, and I refuse to take money away from what I put towards my savings/loans each month.

I've never had to pay $9 a gallon for gas, so comparing prices across the pond does not relate. You simply cannot compare the two.

At that same logic, you could say that kids living on the Amazon River get eatin by Characins so we should be thankful to live here and should pay more for gas.

In the scheme of things, the price of gas isn't going to kill me, but it does have an effect. If gas prices drop to $2 it means the entire economy is better, and i have more money in my wallet, and I'm to spend it on crap.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:35 AM   #10
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I can't speak for the significance on a macroeconomic scale, but I'll tell you that as someone who works in an independent bookstore, the price of gas absolutely affects my monthly budget in a significant way.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
yes, it does.
But HOW?

Let's assume that the US Government had the capability to synthesize gasoline out of thin air at zero cost, and so they gave every single person in the US 20 gallons of gasoline per week absolutely free. (We'll assume that, for whatever reason, this gasoline cannot be exported or re-sold; it has to be consumed domestically.)

This would not in any way change the fundamental, underlying truths of the healthcare system, the banking and credit system, the education system, the housing industry, Military policy, etc.

The only thing this would do would be to increase air pollution, raise the costs of environmental compliance, create more traffic on the roads, lengthen everybody's commute times, and indirectly subsidize automakers and tire manufacturers (both foreign and domestic), while crippling R&D and investment into battery storage technology, zero-emission energy production, etc.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I don't. The retail price of gasoline is not rigidly coupled to any other economic indicator. Ok, so it does slightly alter the price of air travel, shipping of goods by truck, and so on. But it has no bearing on home prices or mortgage rates, and isn't that what everybody is fixated on right now? It doesn't matter where the money goes after it leaves the consumer's wallet. $8 is $8, whether it's funding universal healthcare or buying private yachts for Saudi princes. It really frustrates me that, here in the US, we pay so much less (both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of income) for gasoline, for taxes, for government service fees, and so on as compared to most other industrialized western nations, and yet in one breath we still **** and moan about how we pay "too much" for all of the above, while in the next, demanding that "the government" provide more and more in the way of "free" healthcare, "free" education, "free" social services, "free" mortgage bailouts, and so on. It is damned embarrassing. So again, I ask, how does it actually matter to the majority of Americans whether gasoline costs $2, $4, or $8?
You can relieve your frustration by simply paying in more taxes on your own, voluntarily.

Warren Buffet can do the same.

It's up to you!
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:40 AM   #13
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Let's assume that the US Government had the capability to synthesize gasoline out of thin air at zero cost

WHOA there Ron Hubbard....This isn't a science fiction novel.


and those unintended consequences are exactly why gov't shouldnt meddle.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:41 AM   #14
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http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug...a-bus-20110818

Obama is too busy traveling in his twin $1,100,000.00 motor coaches to give speeches in the midwest and not campaign there. These were purchased with tax dollars, btw.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:46 AM   #15
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and built in Canada.
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Old 08-18-2011, 01:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Serious question:

Does the price of gas *really* make that big of a difference? How many miles per week are some folks driving that $2.00 / gal vs. $3.50 / gal is considered a serious hardship?
The economic drag from oil prices (which are highly correlated to gasoline prices, particularly as they "rise like a rocket but fall like a feather") in 2011Q2 will probably be on the order of 3%.

In 2008Q3, it was almost 4%.

Note that the 2011Q2 CPI number will not account for the rapid drop in oil prices that has happened at the beginning of Q3.

Quote:
But for the majority of Americans, the middle-class, is paying $3.50 / gallon really going to have a significant impact on your life?
This is a valid question that I cannot answer, but I can tell you it will vary widely based on geography. Consider that in many cities that have "nice" business-oriented downtown or city centers, there may be a significant number of middle class workers that have a 30-minute or more commute because of the emmigration to the sub- and ex-burbs. Those people now have homes they cannot or will not sell and job changes are more limited.

Those living in cities with major public transportation infrastructures (subways, monorails, buses, etc) are less directly affected - but those fuel costs are then borne by the municipalities. Likewise, the fuel costs affect most businesses at some point in the supply chain - especially if those input price increases are passed along.

Consider also that crude oil prices generally have a very high correlation with many of the inputs to various petroleum-based products (like plastic components).
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:00 PM   #17
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Or, put even more simply...

If the average household put 12,000 miles per year on their vehicle(s) in total and gasoline goes up by $1.00 per gallon, what impact does that have on their budget?
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:49 PM   #18
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Especially when their boat (or track car) does about 3mi/gal and tow vehicle does 8mi/gal, and the ramp is 50 miles away. **** adds up.
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:50 PM   #19
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lol. how many of you had to go into debt to sell your house?
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:19 PM   #20
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lol. how many of you had to go into debt to sell your house?
That sounds fun.
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