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Old 05-19-2011, 06:53 PM   #21
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I'm confused by that video.

They seemed quite inconsistent about whether the promised reduction was "up to" $2.5k per year, or "an average of" $2.5k per year. These are two very different concepts.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:05 PM   #22
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i love it when Obama comes by my employer and has a chat.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:10 PM   #23
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The next time he comes by, would you mind asking him for clarification on that? I mean, I will promise to personally drink "up to" 2,500 gallons of a homogeneous mixture of HIV+ rat semen and broken glass if it'll get me elected.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:41 PM   #24
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I don't understand any of this waiver bullshit. Please explain how this would affect me, a member of the Bourgeoisie whose health insurance costs are pretty much paid in full for like $40/month. Snort.
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:47 AM   #25
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I don't understand any of this waiver bullshit. Please explain how this would affect me, a member of the Bourgeoisie whose health insurance costs are pretty much paid in full for like $40/month. Snort.
Yeth, but the hired help will all cost more for no additional productivity, ahem [chortle].
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
I don't understand any of this waiver bullshit. Please explain how this would affect me, a member of the Bourgeoisie whose health insurance costs are pretty much paid in full for like $40/month. Snort.

Well this is unlike any other law out there. My example of the 13th admendemnt is inversely proportionate.

The closest thing I can think to compare it to would be the 18th admendment; preventing the manufacturing and selling of alcohol.

If you were a bar owner, you'd be fucked. Your single source of income has just become illegal.

To top off the rediculous law, if this happened today, lucky weathly businesses and manufacturers that had political influence could potition the gov't for a wavier and not have to follow the law.

Luckily we came to our senses and have the 21th admendement.


What this means is that large corporations that have successfully recieved waivers like McDonalds, Foot Locker, Jack-in-the-Box, etc, won't be required to raise the minimum annual benefit included in low-cost health plans, which are often used to cover part-time or low-wage employees.

Without waivers, these companies would have had to provide a minimum of $750,000 in coverage this year, increasing to $1.25 million in 2012, $2 million in 2013 and unlimited in 2014.

There are other types of waivers out there but these particular waviers were granted to insurance plans and companies that showed that employee premiums would rise or that workers would lose coverage without them.

What this means for you is that your $45 plan will soon cost your business a hell-of-a-lot more. They will pass that directly to you. Smart companies lobbied for a free pass. Small companies who cannot afford to hire expensive lawyers to fight the healthcare reform law are going to have to adhere to the law. So the companies that can afford the new healthcare expenses are exempted, while those that cannot are to be punished

When your business decides it's cheaper to simply stop provided healthcare benefits and you cannot afford to purchase your own healthcare when this happens, and it will, the IRS will be kinda enough to tax you.

Meanwhile, Obama will continue to say the healthcare law pays for itself and saves you money. However, the fact that so many companies have asked for and been granted waivers to exempt themselves from the healthcare law show us how wrong he is.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:44 PM   #27
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This won't affect my lifetime membership at the Mayo Clinic will it?
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:46 PM   #28
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The Daily Caller has learned that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) rate review rules, which it finalized on Thursday, exempt “Medigap” policy providers, like the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP), from oversight when such providers increase payment rates for their supplemental insurance plans.

Insurance providers who aren’t exempt from Obamacare’s rate review rules are required to publicly release and explain some health care payment rate increases.

The AARP is the nation’s biggest seller of Medigap policies, or supplemental healthcare plans that add onto what Medicare won’t cover for seniors. The senior citizens interest group advocated for Obamacare to include an attack on Medigap policies’ biggest competitor, Medicare Advantage.
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The AARP was a driving force behind getting Obamacare through Congress, contributing a large sum to the $121 million advertising campaign pushing it, and spending millions more lobbying for it on Capitol Hill.

The senior citizen advocacy organization stands to make huge profits from Medicare Advantage cuts and from the exemptions it will benefit from when it comes to the Medigap plans sold under what AARP Barry Rand calls the AARP’s “for-profit side.”

The AARP’s support of Obamacare during the debate over the legislation raised lots of eyebrows nationwide, as President Obama called for $313 billion in cuts to Medicare to push the plan through. Seniors weren’t happy about it, and many ripped AARP representatives at town hall meetings nationwide.


Now, though, it’s clear that the AARP is set to make millions, if not billions, of extra dollars in Medigap plan sales moving forward because they’ve effectively knocked out their biggest competitor, Medicare Advantage, through Obamacare.
of course the AARP gets a waivor, they were one of the biggest supporters of the bill.




looks like it costs $121 million in bribes to get the gov't to help you monopolize your business legally.
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:48 AM   #29
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Good read on Waivers:

Quote:
Obama skirts rule of law to reward pals, punish foe




Question: What do the following have in common?

Eckert Cold Storage Co., Kerly Homes of Yuma, Classic Party Rentals, West Coast Turf Inc., Ellenbecker Investment Group Inc., Only in San Francisco, Hotel Nikko, International Pacific Halibut Commission, City of Puyallup, Local 485 Health and Welfare Fund, Chicago Plastering Institute Health & Welfare Fund, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Teamsters Local 522 Fund Welfare Fund Roofers Division, StayWell Saipan Basic Plan, CIGNA, Caribbean Workers' Voluntary Employees' Beneficiary Health and Welfare Plan.

Answer: They are all among the 1,372 businesses, state and local governments, labor unions and insurers, covering 3,095,593 individuals or families, that have been granted a waiver from Obamacare by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius.

All of which raises another question: If Obamacare is so great, why do so many people want to get out from under it?

More specifically, why are more than half of those 3,095,593 in plans run by labor unions, which were among Obamacare's biggest political supporters? Union members are only 12 percent of all employees but have gotten 50.3 percent of Obamacare waivers.

Just in April, Sebelius granted 38 waivers to restaurants, nightclubs, spas and hotels in former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco congressional district. Pelosi's office said she had nothing to do with it.

On its website HHS pledges that the waiver process will be transparent. But it doesn't list those whose requests for waivers have been denied.

It does say that requests are "reviewed on a case by case basis by Department officials who look at a series of factors including" -- and then lists two factors. And it refers you to another website that says that "several factors . . . may be considered" -- and then lists six factors.

What other factors may be considered? Political contributions or connections? (Unions contributed $400 million to Democrats in the 2008 campaign cycle.) The websites don't say.

In his new book "The Origins of Political Order," Francis Fukuyama identifies the chief building blocks of liberal democracy as a strong central state, a society strong enough to hold the state accountable and -- equally crucial -- the rule of law.

One basic principle of the rule of law is that laws apply to everybody. If the sign says "No Parking," you're not supposed to park there even if you're a pal of the alderman.

Another principle of the rule of law is that government can't make up new rules to help its cronies and hurt its adversaries except through due process, such as getting a legislature to pass a new law.

The Obamacare waiver process appears to violate that first rule. Two other recent Obama administration actions appear to violate the second.

One example is the National Labor Relations Board general counsel's action to prevent Boeing from building a $2 billion assembly plant for the 787 Dreamliner in South Carolina, which has a right-to-work law barring compulsory union membership. The NLRB says Boeing has to assemble the planes in non-right-to-work Washington state.

"I don't agree," says William Gould IV, NLRB chairman during the Clinton years. "The Boeing case is unprecedented."

The other example is the Internal Revenue Service's attempt to levy a gift tax on donors to certain 501(c)(4) organizations that just happen to have spent money to elect Republicans.

A gift tax is normally assessed on transfers to children and other heirs that are designed to avoid estate taxes. It has been applied to political donations "rarely, if ever," according to New York Times reporter Stephanie Strom.

"The timing of the agency's moves, as the 2012 election cycle gets under way," continues Strom, "is prompting some tax law and campaign finance experts to question whether the IRS could be sending a signal in an effort to curtail big donations."

In a Univision radio interview during the 2010 election cycle, Barack Obama urged Latinos not "to sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're going to punish our enemies and we're going to reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.' "

Punishing enemies and rewarding friends -- politics Chicago style -- seems to be the unifying principle that helps explain the Obamacare waivers, the NLRB action against Boeing and the IRS' gift-tax assault on 501(c)(4) donors.

They look like examples of crony capitalism, bailout favoritism and gangster government.

One thing they don't look like is the rule of law.

Michael Barone, The Examiner's senior political analyst, can be contacted at [email protected]. His column appears Wednesday and Sunday, and his stories and blog posts appear on ExaminerPolitics.com.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:50 PM   #30
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here's how you can get yours:

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President Obama’s solicitor general, defending the national health care law on Wednesday, told a federal appeals court that Americans who didn’t like the individual mandate could always avoid it by choosing to earn less money. Neal Kumar Katyal, the acting solicitor general, made the argument under questioning before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in Cincinnati, which was considering an appeal by the Thomas More Law Center.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:47 PM   #31
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here's how you can get yours:
That right there is the plain and simple reason Obamacare is unconstitutional and should be repealed faster than a dollar bill is snapped up at a girly bar. How many times I've seen this administration, it's paid lackeys, campaign contributors, and fanbois blatantly confess to unconstitutional/criminal activity, but no one seems to give a hoot, regardless of how treasonous their statements and actions are.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:24 PM   #32
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I enjoy my free health care. Just yesterday I got a sliver and the doc pulled it out for free!


Srs.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:44 PM   #33
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I enjoy my free health care. Just yesterday I got a sliver and the doc pulled it out for free!


Srs.
Seriously dude my ******* medical bills are killing me :(

I have insurance. I even have what is considered to be good insurance. My hospital trip cost me 1000 bucks and once i'm done with all my other testing i'll probably be another 3k deep.

Can we just please have what canada has already? Next time I take an ambulance ride i'm going to tell them to drop me off at the boarder.
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:03 PM   #34
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Now, just my opinion (since I actually have experience in this area) public health care is a GOOD thing. The way Obama is trying to implement it, not so much.

Basically you have free basic health care. Covers trips to the doctor, subsidizes medication (you still need to pay like $12 or something for a bottle of whatever), and covers all sugries, post op etc. Now things like the dentist, or optometrist, ambulance rides are not covered. Or chiropractors, physio etc. That's all out of pocket unless your employer has extended medical. I still have to pay a premium each month of $45 or something like that (its auto withdraw, I forget the exact amount). Mind you, BC is one of the only provinces that has that. Move to Alberta and there is no premium but the same coverage (that's what oil money gets you I guess).

Everyone in Canada was in uproar exactly the the USA is now when public healthcare was implemented. But look at everyone now... it's just part of life.

I've been fighting some chronic lower abdominal pains since last December, and have seen multiple specialists, have had scans done, various "other" tests/probes (lol) ultrasound etc. plus various meds. Out of pocket cost so far? = approx $30 total for the meds. I had a physical done a few months ago too, including blood tests. $0.

If I get hit by a car tomorrow while walking my dog and break both my legs and my back and need back surgery. $0

If I get cancer and need chemo for the next 5 years... $0

If you're my sister who has had upwards of 8 back surgeries since she was born due to scoliosis.. $0 cost to my parents.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:00 PM   #35
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health care is a service by man for man. You enjoy free health care because you have no issues being a slave owner.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:53 PM   #36
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lol. right.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:29 PM   #37
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health care is a service by man for man. You enjoy free health care because you have no issues being a slave owner.
Wtf?

Aaron, my girlfriend and I have been having some serious conversations about moving up to B.C. after I graduate. We might be neighbors here soon =P
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:56 PM   #38
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Now, just my opinion (since I actually have experience in this area) public health care is a GOOD thing. The way Obama is trying to implement it, not so much.

Basically you have free basic health care.
There is no such thing as "free" health care. There is health care for which you do not pay a direct cost. You do pay indirectly.


Free should not be the goal, in my opinion. The primary problem with health care costs in the US is, in my opinion, market distortions. The other "problem" is that our costs may be significantly higher than other developed nations due to having more advanced treatments and lower standards of eligibility.

That is, in the UK, they may decide that a pensioner is better off dead than getting a subsidized hip replacement or advanced heart surgery. That means they never spend the cost of the surgery. Thus, they have lower per capita costs.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:54 PM   #39
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(zack morris's phone)

They also don't want 50% of the us population to pay one penny more for all the increased coverage.

Mob rule. Slave drivers.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:13 PM   #40
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There is no such thing as "free" health care. There is health care for which you do not pay a direct cost. You do pay indirectly.


Free should not be the goal, in my opinion. The primary problem with health care costs in the US is, in my opinion, market distortions. The other "problem" is that our costs may be significantly higher than other developed nations due to having more advanced treatments and lower standards of eligibility.

That is, in the UK, they may decide that a pensioner is better off dead than getting a subsidized hip replacement or advanced heart surgery. That means they never spend the cost of the surgery. Thus, they have lower per capita costs.
Yes, that's true. A better way would be to call it subsidized health care. Even as it sits now it's not really "free" since I have to pay for meds and have a monthly MSP bill. But comparing it to living in the USA, it may as well be free.
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