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Old 09-04-2015, 06:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
<p>**** religion. and **** everything about it.</p><p>This is my #1 pet peeve about current politics. How the **** can someone be considered for an office when they bring their religious beliefs into politics.</p><p>Certain republicans bend the 2nd amendment to say that we should be able to own any gun we want, and with no restrictions, but ignore the 1st amendment and TRY AND TEACH RELIGION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. or the argument about gay marriage, like wtf, how can you take yourself seriously when you are quoting religion in your political decisions.</p><p>/off-topic-rant</p>
You and I get along so well

I actually have something to contribute to this thread, but I cant find it.
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:10 PM   #22
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In any case it was an article/study talking about how people from different "tribes" are hardwired to lack empathy for each other. Tribes in quotations because it can mean nationality, race, beliefs, and tribes, and anything else you can label as a separate group of people from "your own".
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:13 PM   #23
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^ So true about tribalism.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:21 AM   #24
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Nice to finally see some empathy on MT.net.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:37 AM   #25
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Otherwise, you get into the "dey took er jerbs!" argument popular in the American south.
Largely an influence of people who spend too much time listening to Hannity/Limbaugh, etc.

If you are an able-bodied male in the USA who at least graduated high school, there is literally no reason you lost your job to an illegal/migrant worker.

Other than maybe not being able to put down the bottle, meth pipe, syringe, etc.
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #26
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Largely an influence of people who spend too much time listening to Hannity/Limbaugh, etc.
This is completely true.

However, those people have precisely the same voting rights as all the rest of us, and if anything, tend to turn out at the polls in greater numbers.



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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
If you are an able-bodied male in the USA who at least graduated high school, there is literally no reason you lost your job to an illegal/migrant worker.

Other than maybe not being able to put down the bottle, meth pipe, syringe, etc.
There's no reason why not being able to put down the bottle should be an impediment to holding down a decent job. You just have to adopt a practical schedule and stick to it. eg: no more than four shots of bourbon on the way into work, no more than two beers at lunch, etc (varies with body mass and metabolism, obviously.)
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:21 PM   #27
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by TheBigChill View Post
Nice to finally see some empathy on MT.net.
sympathy.

learn to grammar.


I don't believe any of us here can empathize with south asian refugees.


true story: today i flicked off a firefighter standing in the middle of the road holding a boot collect donations. I sympathized him having to stand in the sun and deal with ******** like me.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:36 PM   #29
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true story: today i flicked off a firefighter standing in the middle of the road holding a boot collect donations.
Why?
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TheBigChill View Post
Nice to finally see some empathy on MT.net.
Just curious. Have you donated money or time in the past year to some cause?

Not accusing you nor assuming you're one but...

There seems to be a tendency for leftists to assume that only gov't can help the less fortunate, and that if gov't didn't do it people wouldn't do it... and that anyone who doesn't want gov't to do it, don't want to do it at all.

And yet, surveys have consistently shown that self-identified "progressives" donate a smaller $ amount and a smaller % of their income than self-identified "conservatives".

Leftists claim they want to help people; but they only do it if everyone does it by force via gov't. What's doubly funny is that they preach more gov't such as in more environmental regulations, and then when the costs hit them in the wallet (such as when they are remodeling their house and have to pay for the exorbitant permit fees, and have to follow e.g. CA's Title 24), they complain LOL.

Disclaimer: I am much more of a "classical liberal" than either "progressive" or "conservative".

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Old 09-06-2015, 06:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Why?
Stopping traffic at the longest light in area, people were stopping at the green to donate. Some old lady stopped in front of me to give at a green light and I honked at her cause I didn't want to miss the light, he yelled something at me, so I flipped him my business and told him to **** off.

Their trucks were also blocking a left turn. Lane and.l causing backups in the straight lanes.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:41 PM   #32
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Gotcha. Bad form on their part.
I did this for several hours the other day, but we didn't block any intersections.
I don't work in a very big city either, so traffic wasn't really an issue.
It's amusing to see what some people do to avoid the embarrassment of not donating, as if we're judging them or something.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:08 PM   #33
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I find the "obligation to help" argument difficult.

Taken to one extreme, the guy with the "Who is John Galt?" bumper sticker might argue that a wealthy, fat American has no moral obligation whatsoever to share his Baconator, Large Fries, and Frosty with a starving, malnourished Sudanese child standing directly in front of him. I find this position to be hard to defend.

Taken to the other extreme, Angelina Jolie Mother Teresa might (have) argue(d) that if you haven't shared your own wealth and good fortune with the least-fortunate to the point where your standing with that poor soul is equal, then you are withholding and hoarding resources that could save lives and decrease the ugly and desperate poverty in this world. I also find this position to be hard to defend.

And in the continuum that exists between those positions, I have a hard time identifying any line of demarcation. You can drop a couple bucks in the Salvation Army bucket at Christmas, you can buy dozens of goats for families in Africa, or you can personally adopt 3 or 4 Eastern European orphans. But all of those choices are just points on a continuum and I can't really come up with any criteria that makes a particular point on the continuum more defensible than another.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:55 PM   #34
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“Since this is an era when many people are concerned about 'fairness' and 'social justice,' what is your 'fair share' of what someone else has worked for?” ― Thomas Sowell
I could deal with a whole thread full of Sowell quotes. He is a ******* legend.

He agrees with Joe in every way possible in this circumstance.



Moving forward, the argument regarding people just being born into wealth without having earned it themselves.. Well the wealth is hereditary. Why should a person who works and earn huge sums of money and power be forced to give it to people who arent their direct descendants(or whoever else they want to give it to).

Taking it from the descendants is theft, through and through. Imagine that the person left his oil billions to charity, then the descendants went and took it from the charity against the charities will, its theft in either direction no matter how 'greedy' you think it is.

Dann

Last edited by nitrodann; 09-06-2015 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:51 PM   #35
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This reminds me of the issue of inheritance tax that is a huge burden on farmers in my state.
Indiana is one of the few states remaining with an outrageous inheritance tax that is around 40% of the value of the estate.
Inheritance tax is one of the (although perhaps not the greatest) reasons that farming is dying as an occupation in my state.
For instance; my neighbor is the owner of a farm that has been passed down from father to son for over 150 years. Its value has been paid many times over through property taxes.
It is of modest size for a farm in this area, but thanks to the skyrocketing price of corn and the ensuing hike in land value over the last few years, it is worth close to $1,000,000, not including equipment value.
The farmers oldest son is 30, and though gainfully employed, is in no position to fork over 400k in the event of his father's death.
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:56 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I find the "obligation to help" argument difficult.

Taken to one extreme, the guy with the "Who is John Galt?" bumper sticker might argue that a wealthy, fat American has no moral obligation whatsoever to share his Baconator, Large Fries, and Frosty with a starving, malnourished Sudanese child standing directly in front of him. I find this position to be hard to defend.

Taken to the other extreme, Angelina Jolie Mother Teresa might (have) argue(d) that if you haven't shared your own wealth and good fortune with the least-fortunate to the point where your standing with that poor soul is equal, then you are withholding and hoarding resources that could save lives and decrease the ugly and desperate poverty in this world. I also find this position to be hard to defend.

And in the continuum that exists between those positions, I have a hard time identifying any line of demarcation. You can drop a couple bucks in the Salvation Army bucket at Christmas, you can buy dozens of goats for families in Africa, or you can personally adopt 3 or 4 Eastern European orphans. But all of those choices are just points on a continuum and I can't really come up with any criteria that makes a particular point on the continuum more defensible than another.
charity is awesome. forced altruism is slavery.
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:41 PM   #37
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I could deal with a whole thread full of Sowell quotes. He is a ******* legend.

He agrees with Joe in every way possible in this circumstance.

Moving forward, the argument regarding people just being born into wealth without having earned it themselves.. Well the wealth is hereditary. Why should a person who works and earn huge sums of money and power be forced to give it to people who arent their direct descendants(or whoever else they want to give it to).

Taking it from the descendants is theft, through and through. Imagine that the person left his oil billions to charity, then the descendants went and took it from the charity against the charities will, its theft in either direction no matter how 'greedy' you think it is.

Dann

We can cherry pick quotes that suit our varying opinions all day long... But there's no value in that. Also, "wealth is hereditary"? Give me a break. Green eyes are hereditary. The fact that your Grandfather worked his *** off digging for oil in no way equates to you working your *** off. Paris Hilton's a real go-getter, AMIRITE?

Nobody is taking anything... Wages aren't being garnished; assets aren't being seized & reallocated. People are merely asking a question; asking for help. What some of us are saying is this: For many people, there's at least a twinge of moral obligation to help someone, anyone, who is in dire need. Especially those who are truly victims of circumstance. This isn't a request to bailout irresponsible banks or vehicle manufacturers, or some ******** who maxed-out their AMEX. This is mass persecution and displacement, in the modern world.

Just look at the magnitude of the crowdfunding that takes place these days:

$700,000 raised for a bullied Bus Monitor (wut?).
$1,400,000 raised for Brooklyn schools field trip to Harvard.
$20,000,000 raised for Pebble Time (a smart watch).
$88,000,000 raised for Star Citizen (a video game).

Over 100 Million ******* dollars, so people could have smartwatch and a video game. Syrians though? **** 'em, because "what do I get?"
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:47 PM   #38
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Did you mean semantics?

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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
sympathy.

learn to grammar.


I don't believe any of us here can empathize with south asian refugees.


true story: today i flicked off a firefighter standing in the middle of the road holding a boot collect donations. I sympathized him having to stand in the sun and deal with ******** like me.
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:52 PM   #39
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...Syrians though? **** 'em, because "what do I get?"
exactly.

what do you get when you just let this into your country:




when we already have **** like this:




Germany is expect to have to spend about 6 billion dollars taking in just 800,000 of these refugees.

Then they immediately are granted the rights the medical, housing, education, courts, welfare.



if you want to solve the refugee problem? Kill Assad. it's THAT easy.


crowdfunding is great, because a person can choose to spend their own money however they like. That the only moral way to spend money. Stop confusing charity with slavery.

I have zero moral obligation to give anyone my money. none. and i bet a make a LOT more money than you.


Quote:
Nobody is taking anything... Wages aren't being garnished; assets aren't being seized & reallocated.

where exactly do you think the money & resources are coming from?
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Just curious. Have you donated money or time in the past year to some cause?

Not accusing you nor assuming you're one but...

There seems to be a tendency for leftists to assume that only gov't can help the less fortunate, and that if gov't didn't do it people wouldn't do it... and that anyone who doesn't want gov't to do it, don't want to do it at all.

And yet, surveys have consistently shown that self-identified "progressives" donate a smaller $ amount and a smaller % of their income than self-identified "conservatives".

Leftists claim they want to help people; but they only do it if everyone does it by force via gov't. What's doubly funny is that they preach more gov't such as in more environmental regulations, and then when the costs hit them in the wallet (such as when they are remodeling their house and have to pay for the exorbitant permit fees, and have to follow e.g. CA's Title 24), they complain LOL.

Disclaimer: I am much more of a "classical liberal" than either "progressive" or "conservative".

I donate regularly (mostly local). I have far more than what I actually need, and even more than those who have nothing. Having said that, I'm far from rich or privileged, and in a place like California I suspect I'm barely middle class in terms of income. I give loans through Kiva. I volunteer with the American Cancer Society. That said, I'm still a trolling ******* who has too many cars.

I have no firm political affiliations or philosophy, because I refuse to adjust or omit any of my beliefs or morals solely to fit within party lines. Classic Liberalism looks great on paper, but I don't think any one political philosophy applies seamlessly these days.
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