Lokiel

Those "Researchers" obviously had some serious bias.

I started work in the Defence industry at the end of the Cold War and all my life had been led to believe that Russians were poorly educated and knew very little outside of the USSR.
Fast-Forward to 10 years ago when I started working with a lot of ex-pat Russians in the IT world and I learned that this couldn't be more wrong.
The Russian/Communist education system put a lot of focus on mathematics, the sciences, history and arts and less on some of the "wishy-washy" stuff we had to do in Australia. Their engineers were all technically brilliant and they knew far more about the rest of the world than I expected (eg. not only did they know the major cities of each country, but they could tell you their population, form of government, and what each region was known for. I was also surprised at how balanced their view of history was (and yes, they were very proud of being Russian so that did play into their views but not as much as I expected, they did recognise their failings).

Education was free under Communism so the brightest students were always able to be educated to the highest levels, unlike most other countries, where you need money to be educated or access to paid scholarships which are few and far between.

IMO, the Australian education system (prior to University, where schooling actually gets serious, for mathematical students and engineers at least) lost its way for a while, moving away from "The 3 Rs" and I never thought we studied enough world history (I'm a history nut) or world events.
They also went through a phase of not giving students grades because it might negatively impact the child - HOW THE HELL ARE PARENTS SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW THEIR KIDS ARE DOING IN SCHOOL?

When I lived in the US, my concerns were taken to a completely new level:
* they seem to teach to the lowest common denominator (no wonder many bright kids get bored)
* kids are passed onto the next grade regardless of whether or not they deserve to (HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO PASS GRADE 4 IF YOU CAN"T PASS GRADE 3?)
* history and geography is US-only (no wonder most grow up to live in a US bubble)

These comments were confirmed by several US teachers I met who told me:
* Many students must be passed to the next grade regardless of ability because there's not enough room to keep them back (ie classes will be filled with new students).
* With 50 US states to educate students about and plenty of significant historical moments in the US alone (Europeans who think that "The US has no history!" are simply snobs), there's no room in the curriculum to teach them about the rest of the world.

So, IMO and experience, Russian/Communist schooling priot to university has been far better than Aussie or US schools

FYI: Please don't interpret this as "US-bashing" and be offended by it, they're my observations and opinions based on experience and should be interpreted as how "an outsider" viewed these education systems (prior to University). If I'm wrong, tell me why I'm wrong without getting all patriotic because that has nothing to do with whether the Russian/Communist schooling system produces less-educated people.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I don't think you're wrong.

One thing that strikes me- in the US educational system, at least when I was in it, we did have precisely one year in High School of "world history," however it seemed to be concerned more with ancient civilizations up through the feudal period in Europe, with relatively little emphasis on the state of the present world. There was another full year of US history, but then the US is young enough (as is Australia) that its history can be covered to a reasonable level of detail in one school year.

I'd be curious to know if any my fellow Americans received any sort of meaningful education as to the affairs of foreign nations in the latter half of the 20th century. I mean, in a way we got to watch in happen live on TV, but then there's a lot of depth behind things like the rise and fall of the Soviet Union which you don't get from watching a bunch of people smash a wall while listening to Tom Brokaw.


I do find it interesting that, as a broad generalization, the school systems of communist nations seem to place a great deal more emphasis on foreign languages and politics than those of non-communist nations. (Cuba, China, USSR, etc.) I wonder if this is true in present-day N. Korea?

dleavitt

iTrader: (1)

US education system is not good. I say that as a (formerly) licensed educator. There are many reasons for this, and there is no one solution. Looking at the amount spent per pupil and my property tax rates, it certainly isn't a lack of funds.

There are too many administrators, which leads to budgetary constraints and fewer teachers.

We've spent the last 50 years importing a bunch of people from third-world countries with cultures that don't value academic education. These cultures also tend to have high birth rates.

On the flip side, you have other parents that can't face the fact that they are raising a loser so the fact that little Timmy doesn't turn in his homework and is failing my class is MY fault.

Teacher pay is not all that great, especially for all the bureaucratic bullshit you have to put up with. Add all the above, and you aren't attracting the best and brightest to the teaching profession. The naive one's that push on anyway are systematically crushed by a system that is threatened by their competence.

It's a clusterfuck from top to bottom.

Lokiel

Part of the problem with teachers and our education system is that teachers get NO respect and crap pay in many Western countries.

Compare this to countries like Singapore, where teachers are held in high esteem, are paid well and are respected by parents AND students.
People actually want to become teachers in Singapore and it's the dream job for most young Australian teachers.

In places like the US, Canada, Australia, the UK, NZ, etc., anybody with any "brains" will choose another career because teaching is not a rewarding/desirable/prestigious job.

In Australia at least, this has meant that there are no brilliant teachers, most become teachers because they didn't qualify for anything else, and some of our teachers are very much below par which doesn't help anyone.
eg.
My sister-in-law is a teacher and her spelling and grammar is atrocious.
One of my sister's childhood pen-pal friends became a teacher and my sister always commented on how bad her spelling was.
With teachers of the calibre of this, it's no wonder kids can't spell these days.

Until this turns around, the quality of our teachers will never improve which directly affects the quality of student education.

rleete

iTrader: (21)

My wife is a teacher's aide. As in, glorified babysitter. She makes less than the minimum wage in NYC, and the ONLY reason she works is for the health care, which is top notch.

She works in a 12-1-1 classroom. Than means maximum 12 students, 1 teacher, 1 aide. This is 7th grade.

She actually has kids in he class than can not read. In 7th grade. How the hell does a kid get to 7th grade without being able to read? Answer that (hint: it's all about the money), and you've answered what's wrong with the system.

z31maniac

Ding ding ding. Winner winner chicken dinner.

Harvard did a study a few year ago showing that those that go into the teaching profession typically have the lowest entry scores (SAT/ACT), lowest GPAs, lowest entry scores into grad school, while also not taking things like Physics, Chemistry, etc.

At 36 I think about going ahead and getting my Masters, buy I already have 10+ years of experience in my field. So I'm not sure it would be worthwhile unless I wanted to go back and teach Tech Writing in college. But why in the hell would I want to take a 50% pay cut just from where I'm at now?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

good news is, now elementary teachers teach their children about how awful America is!


fun fact: those who cant do, teach.

buffon01

iTrader: (9)

In high school the level of involvement with foreign nations was limited to a weekly writing exercise where the student prepares a 5 paragraph essay referencing a current event from a newspaper. To me this seem more like training for the FCAT, than anything else. There was no open discussion nor "teaching" giving by the instructor.

I left school in Honduras at the 7th grade, history had more emphasis on foreign cultures than in the US. I always assumed it was because Honduras is so small in the relevance of the world that you would have to look outwards, as opposed to the US where I feel spearheads development and what not. In short, it was like being a regular person talking about other exceptional individuals, while in the US is the exceptional individual giving talks about their accomplishments.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Time for a random political picture:

Lokiel

Looks nothing like Trumpty-Dumpty, he's not doing that stupid thing with his mouth, he's not orange enough and the hair is all wrong!

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Don't you dare criticize our GOD EMPEROR!!! Only he can lead the way to the one true ultimate president.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

you're a racist ****.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

this:

buffon01

iTrader: (9)

<3 JP

Lokiel

I humbly apologise if my earlier comment offended any oranges, mandarines, tangelos. tangerines, mangoes or carrots, it was not my intention - I really love you guys!

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

See, your bias here is just incredibly offensive. I can't believe how you otherize pumpkins and butternut squash by totally excluding them from this apology. Like, just because they're kind of soft and stringy on the inside, they somehow don't have feelings and can't hear your micro-aggressive words.

Lokiel

I actually HATE the taste of pumpkins and their derivatives (I can't even stand sweet potatoes because they taste too much like pumpkin). If they're served on my plate, I'll either leave them, try to slip them on someone else's plate or, in the worst case, cutting them up fine swallow them whole without chewing.
I'm not alone in this. On my grandpa's farm he always had a few pigs and they didn't eat pumpkin either, they ate almost every other vegetable but always left the pumpkin.

rleete

iTrader: (21)

I go through a bag of roasted pumpkin seeds almost every week at work. Good snackin'.

ManiacLachy

You do realise you're liking yourself to pigs here?

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

There is no room for your hate here, ***** scum.

* = This applies only and specifically to *****. All other forms of violently-oppressive socialist governance are welcome.