Progress!
#41
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,072
Total Cats: 6,625
Hard to say what the amortized cost would be- what length of time would you amortize over? At this point, we don't have a large dataset on the expected lifespan of current generation wind turbines and solar-thermal plants.
Even nukes would be hard to quantify, as many of the nuke plants in the US have already received license extensions to operation beyond their original design-basis lifetime, albeit at the cost of significant refurbishment (replacement of vessel heads, steam generators, backup systems, main coolant pumps, etc.)
And do coal plants even have a lifetime? We've got a lot of stations in the US which have been operating since the 1940s and 50s, with no end in sight.
I really loved the "GHG emissions"chart with fooger03 posted:
A while back, someone had noted that my e-bike was not actually 100% emissions-free, even when being charged from San Onofre. Granted. But who knew that our friendly local nuke plant had a lower total greenhouse footprint than an equivalent wind-turbine farm or hydroelectric dam? And, mind you, this data was complied by a bunch of hippies (literally) who call themselves Lotus Live and espouse "positive sustainability". You can bet that they didn't intentionally skew that data in favor of fission.
Suck on that, anti-nuke crowd.
Even nukes would be hard to quantify, as many of the nuke plants in the US have already received license extensions to operation beyond their original design-basis lifetime, albeit at the cost of significant refurbishment (replacement of vessel heads, steam generators, backup systems, main coolant pumps, etc.)
And do coal plants even have a lifetime? We've got a lot of stations in the US which have been operating since the 1940s and 50s, with no end in sight.
I really loved the "GHG emissions"chart with fooger03 posted:
A while back, someone had noted that my e-bike was not actually 100% emissions-free, even when being charged from San Onofre. Granted. But who knew that our friendly local nuke plant had a lower total greenhouse footprint than an equivalent wind-turbine farm or hydroelectric dam? And, mind you, this data was complied by a bunch of hippies (literally) who call themselves Lotus Live and espouse "positive sustainability". You can bet that they didn't intentionally skew that data in favor of fission.
Suck on that, anti-nuke crowd.
#42
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,799
Total Cats: 179
How old is what info? NYMEX spot pricing on US natural gas? My info is "current." It's technically at $2.82 as of 2:23 PM.
EIA spot pricing chart
EIA spot pricing chart
#44
As another negative, there was a big article in our local paper today about how much the three active projects in the US are all over budget and how it could impact future builds. I knew the slant that was coming when it opened as "As the first new nuclear plant construction in over a decade..."
I guess technically 34 years is in fact "over a decade".
I guess technically 34 years is in fact "over a decade".
#45
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,072
Total Cats: 6,625
It's important to consider this in perspective, of course.
What's the significance of 3 or 4 billion dollars spent on something which will last 40 years or more, as compared to the amount of money and lives which will be saved by offsetting the need for fossil-fuel generation over that entire period?
These articles talk about a couple of billion dollars like it's a big deal.
What's the significance of 3 or 4 billion dollars spent on something which will last 40 years or more, as compared to the amount of money and lives which will be saved by offsetting the need for fossil-fuel generation over that entire period?
These articles talk about a couple of billion dollars like it's a big deal.
#52
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,799
Total Cats: 179
Originally Posted by Me, several days ago
For what it's worth, one of your graphs uses natural gas at $4.00/mcf. It's trading below $3.00 after bottoming around $2.00 recently. I think $4.00 is not unreasonable as a future expectation, just pointing that out.
Originally Posted by Me, around the same timeframe
How old is what info? NYMEX spot pricing on US natural gas? My info is "current." It's technically at $2.82 as of 2:23 PM.
Alternative conspiracy theory is that you and Codycord are being intentionally dense to undermine discourse.
#54
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,799
Total Cats: 179
I figured it was something out of the ordinary as you generally lack the sort of humor (on this board, that I have seen) that would be involved in "bazinga!-ing" me in such a manner and you are normally not the type to make such simple oversight mistakes (repeatedly). [backhanded compliment]
#55
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,072
Total Cats: 6,625
More progress!
The Washington, D.C., Circuit Court of Appeals has unanimously rejected a petition by the anti-human group "Southern Alliance for Clean Energy" to halt the Vogtle expansion. Construction progresses unimpeded.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Additionally, the NRC has granted a combined operating license to South Carolina Electric & Gas, authorizing the construction of TWO MORE AP1000 REACTORS, identical to the new Vogtle units, at the V.C. Summer nuclear plant just north of Columbia, SC. (V.C. Summer presently operates a single Westinghouse PWR reactor, rated at 1000 MWe. V.C Summer units 2 and 3 are scheduled to commence operation in 2017 and 2018, respectively.
I can barely wrap my head around the fact that after 35 years, America's nuclear renaissance appears to actually be happening.
The Washington, D.C., Circuit Court of Appeals has unanimously rejected a petition by the anti-human group "Southern Alliance for Clean Energy" to halt the Vogtle expansion. Construction progresses unimpeded.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Additionally, the NRC has granted a combined operating license to South Carolina Electric & Gas, authorizing the construction of TWO MORE AP1000 REACTORS, identical to the new Vogtle units, at the V.C. Summer nuclear plant just north of Columbia, SC. (V.C. Summer presently operates a single Westinghouse PWR reactor, rated at 1000 MWe. V.C Summer units 2 and 3 are scheduled to commence operation in 2017 and 2018, respectively.
I can barely wrap my head around the fact that after 35 years, America's nuclear renaissance appears to actually be happening.
#56
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,799
Total Cats: 179
At the same time that huge amounts of fossil fuels have become accessible domestically. This combination could have such amazingly positive implications for the future of the USA, I hesitate to consider them all for fear of jinxing it.
#57
More progress!
The Washington, D.C., Circuit Court of Appeals has unanimously rejected a petition by the anti-human group "Southern Alliance for Clean Energy" to halt the Vogtle expansion. Construction progresses unimpeded.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Additionally, the NRC has granted a combined operating license to South Carolina Electric & Gas, authorizing the construction of TWO MORE AP1000 REACTORS, identical to the new Vogtle units, at the V.C. Summer nuclear plant just north of Columbia, SC. (V.C. Summer presently operates a single Westinghouse PWR reactor, rated at 1000 MWe. V.C Summer units 2 and 3 are scheduled to commence operation in 2017 and 2018, respectively.
I can barely wrap my head around the fact that after 35 years, America's nuclear renaissance appears to actually be happening.
The Washington, D.C., Circuit Court of Appeals has unanimously rejected a petition by the anti-human group "Southern Alliance for Clean Energy" to halt the Vogtle expansion. Construction progresses unimpeded.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Additionally, the NRC has granted a combined operating license to South Carolina Electric & Gas, authorizing the construction of TWO MORE AP1000 REACTORS, identical to the new Vogtle units, at the V.C. Summer nuclear plant just north of Columbia, SC. (V.C. Summer presently operates a single Westinghouse PWR reactor, rated at 1000 MWe. V.C Summer units 2 and 3 are scheduled to commence operation in 2017 and 2018, respectively.
I can barely wrap my head around the fact that after 35 years, America's nuclear renaissance appears to actually be happening.
We need to keep building these things. Everywhere. It's the first step toward the energy independence we all know is coming in a couple hundred years when the oil gets too scarce/expensive.
#59
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,072
Total Cats: 6,625
But you're right- we don't need to be 100% energy-independent. We just need to stop running a trade deficit. Energy-independence would be one step towards achieving that goal.
Just get the politics out of free trade and leave the market alone.
What does "leave the market alone" mean? Stop regulating it? That principle results in corruption, crime and de-facto rule-by-warlord when applied to everyday goings-on (see Syria, Mogadishu, Somalia, Russia in 1918-1919, etc)
Are you familiar with The Prisioner's Dilemna?
Complete and total deregulation of all industry and commerce in the US would result in almost instantaneous and total economic collapse, and for the same reasons.
Also, I consider it thread-crapping when anyone attempts to latch onto any conversation and steer it in the direction of a specific political agenda. In fact, it's more than thread-crapping- it's downright trolling.
#60
I did not intend a sidetrack. It was more of a "there won't be any oil left so we'll need to handle our own energy needs" statement. Globalization is a good thing IMHO.
Anyways, back to the nukes. Has the voting population figured out that if we can run reactors on underwater stealth tubes of freedom safely that we can do it on land safely?
Anyways, back to the nukes. Has the voting population figured out that if we can run reactors on underwater stealth tubes of freedom safely that we can do it on land safely?