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Old 06-29-2013, 04:39 PM   #21
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This child is one of a set of triplets, and has a brother with boy parts and a sister with girl parts. Interesting that she/he is smack in the middle gender-wise, with a brain and a body that don't align.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:22 PM   #22
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For everyone else, if she wants to be a girl instead of what she was born as, why do you care? Is she oppressing you?
In a way, yes. Not me, but for the kids that she has to go to school with. All the girls now have to share the bathroom with a boy. He can call himself a girl all day long, but he's not a girl anymore than I'm a dinosaur (although I do a mean raptor impression).

It may not be such a big deal now, but this opens the door to any male who wants to share locker rooms with the ladies freely.

I'll bet that will be a fun conversation; "How dare you tell me I'm not a girl just because i'm genetically a man?! You MUST let me shower/change clothes/use the same bathroom as you or you're a discriminating bigot!

What about the rights and feelings of all the other little girls in the school?
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:29 PM   #23
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It may not be such a big deal now, but this opens the door to any male who wants to share locker rooms with the ladies freely.
Please, tell us all more about the guy who is going to dress, act, and identify as a girl in public on a regular basis just to gain access to the ladies' locker room.

This entire thread is
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:40 PM   #24
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This is actually one of the few aspects of life as a whole which can be absolutely and unambiguously defined in binary terms.

I'm entirely open to various interpretations of sexuality (eg: heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, braineacksexual, and an infinite number of variations which lie across a broad continuum), but when it comes to gender, you either have a Y chromosome or you do not.

It's pretty straightforward.

Sex is black/white. You have a XX, or XY (lets ignore the XXY cases for now). It is a biological factor, with essentially no social aspect. Sperm producers are male. Egg/fetus-developing individuals are female.




However, gender is a social construct. It has nothing to do with biology, or DNA. Western culture has 2 genders, with strictly defined norms. Other cultures (some asian, as well as some native american), have 3 or more genders.


Gender is BS, and isn't related to sex whatsoever. We have defined male and female in such a strict way, that all of a sudden "trans-gender" people have a stigma. They aren't "trans-gender", they just don't fit into arbitrary made up norms for behavior of each sex.







EDIT: Why do we care if young girls see young boy "parts"? It's not like it's something anatomically modern humans didn't see on a regular basis for the last 100,000 years. The whole "what gender am I?" issue is laughable. Gender doesn't biologically exist, so why does it matter?

[Tangent] Perhaps if children weren't instilled with shame of the human body from such a young age, fewer instances of sexual deviance would exist.....


"Okay Sally, you need to be ashamed of your body, and feel a compulsive need to hide yourself, because human sexuality and biology is disgusting."

[/Tangent]

Last edited by 2ndGearRubber; 06-29-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Please, tell us all more about the guy who is going to dress, act, and identify as a girl in public on a regular basis just to gain access to the ladies' locker room.

This entire thread is
Wow, someone gets it!


Gender doesn't exist, just like homo/hetero sexuality doesn't exist. Both sexual orientation and gender are on a continuum. Every one is somewhat male, somewhat female, somewhat gay, somewhat straight.

Human beings are more complicated that 1 word labels. Sav gets this, that's probably why his turbo miata is superior to most of the other ones on the forum.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:40 PM   #26
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However, gender is a social construct. It has nothing to do with biology, or DNA. Western culture has 2 genders, with strictly defined norms. Other cultures (some asian, as well as some native american), have 3 or more genders.

Gender is BS, and isn't related to sex whatsoever. We have defined male and female in such a strict way, that all of a sudden "trans-gender" people have a stigma. They aren't "trans-gender", they just don't fit into arbitrary made up norms for behavior of each sex.


EDIT: Why do we care if young girls see young boy "parts"? It's not like it's something anatomically modern humans didn't see on a regular basis for the last 100,000 years. The whole "what gender am I?" issue is laughable. Gender doesn't biologically exist, so why does it matter?

[Tangent] Perhaps if children weren't instilled with shame of the human body from such a young age, fewer instances of sexual deviance would exist.....


"Okay Sally, you need to be ashamed of your body, and feel a compulsive need to hide yourself, because human sexuality and biology is disgusting."

[/Tangent]
Yup, this came about after the rise of agriculture, large civilizations, private property, and reinforced by certain religions.
In the history of humanity, more researchers now believe that monogamy, the nuclear family, and strictly defined gender roles, is a recent thing, and unnatural, evolutionarily speaking.

And here's a fascinating book you might like about human sexuality, its range, and most especially, about polygamy and matriarchal societies:
Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What It Means for Modern Relationships: Christopher Ryan, Cacilda Jetha: 9780061707810: Amazon.com: Books Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What It Means for Modern Relationships: Christopher Ryan, Cacilda Jetha: 9780061707810: Amazon.com: Books

Interesting that females are more likely to experiment with homosexuality, thus my observation that threesomes with 2 females are far more common than threesomes with 2 males.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:06 PM   #27
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Most modern norms, are both evolutionarily unnatural, and psychologically backwards.


If an attractive, passable trans-girl winked at you, and you found her attractive, your body would react in the same way as a natural female. If you don't know about the difference between the legs, and don't have a way to quantify in your higher brain function about that discrepancy, you will have a base sexual response.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:29 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Please, tell us all more about the guy who is going to dress, act, and identify as a girl in public on a regular basis just to gain access to the ladies' locker room.
This person may or may not exist. The point I'm making (devil's advocate)is that it could open the door for creeps to hang out in the ladies locker room, free from prosecution because we have to be "fair" to the few men who actually believe they are women. There are people who will exploit any law for their own benefit.

The biggest problem I see here is that we as a culture are just not evolved socially enough to accept this and this kid is in for a real tough life. We have a habit of curtailing many rights for those under the age of 18 under the guise of their brains not being developed enough to make rational life decisions. I think it's absurd to let a 4 year old decide that they want to live life as a girl, when they are clearly not.

Perhaps in a perfect world where everyone got along and accepted each other for who they are in spite of their differences it would be fine.

This is not that world, and likely never will be.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dieselmiata View Post
This person may or may not exist. The point I'm making (devil's advocate)is that it could open the door for creeps to hang out in the ladies locker room, free from prosecution because we have to be "fair" to the few men who actually believe they are women. There are people who will exploit any law for their own benefit.

The biggest problem I see here is that we as a culture are just not evolved socially enough to accept this and this kid is in for a real tough life. We have a habit of curtailing many rights for those under the age of 18 under the guise of their brains not being developed enough to make rational life decisions. I think it's absurd to let a 4 year old decide that they want to live life as a girl, when they are clearly not.

Perhaps in a perfect world where everyone got along and accepted each other for who they are in spite of their differences it would be fine.

This is not that world, and likely never will be.


You're confusing the concepts of "female" (refers to sex) and "girl" (which is a arbitrary gender designation). Yes, it may be early for a child to identify, for the rest of their life, as a "girl". But who's to say their identity may not change in the future? FWIW; having know a few trans people, it's not an active choice. It's like sexuality, you know, from a very young age, you are not fitting into norms. Even children can be seen deviating from gender norms, and they know that they are, yet know it is who they are.


As for the creeps, remember that since they don't identify as the feminine gender, they wouldn't be allowed. Of course, the idea of males and females needing to be separated, while urinating, is another foolish modern concept. An organism is expelling liquid waste. Males can watch a female sneeze, yet seeing each others "no-no parts" is somehow frowned upon? It's like people who you want censoring of music/media. We all know what "Fuc-bleep" means, so why the fu-k are we censoring it?




I will reiterate, sexual deviance is a RESULT of the shame cycle perpetuated over human sexuality and sex-differences. The more you make something taboo, the more people will want to do it. Weren't you ever a teenager?
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #30
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Sex: Male

Gender: Female



Male/Female in refering in gender: Inaccurate, poorly phrased terms.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:08 AM   #31
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While your clarification between the terms "sex" and "gender" is accurate most people are referring to sex when they say "gender". I could not care less if the boy wants to dress and act like a girl normally would. However, he is not female and denying him use of a facility that is separated on the basis of sex, not gender, seems completely logical to me.

Identify as whatever you want but don't expect others to accommodate your preferences. I really never understood this mentality. You make decisions. There are consequences for those decisions.

Before anyone says, "This is not a decision!", the feelings may not be but acting on them is definitely a choice.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:26 AM   #32
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I would love to know where this idea that sex is a constant while gender is a variable comes from.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:33 AM   #33
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Which bathrooms do trannys belong in?
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #34
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Which bathrooms do trannys belong in?
That's a good question.

I would assume that if they are post op they would use the bathroom of the sex they identify with both mentally and physically. It could be argued that they have nonfunctional reproductive abilities and are therefore have not changed sex, however, there are many people who are born male or female with nonfunctional reproductive abilities.

I would argue that they should use the bathroom in which their sexual organs are now, for the purposes of the bathroom, functionally and visually correct. There would be no way for anyone else using that bathroom to tell that they were not, in fact, of the same sex originally and therefore no cause for discomfort for this reason.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:37 AM   #35
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I would love to know where this idea that sex is a constant while gender is a variable comes from.
Sociology 101


Gender identity, and gender roles, are both social constructs. We find it odd, when a young male plays with barbie dolls, or a young female is out digging up earth-worms. They are not following are societies gender norms, thus, we find them "odd". Tom-boy, sissy, whatever you want to call them, they are deviating from norms, which we have defined as a society.



Honestly Joe, you're a really well rounded and smart guy (likely college educated), I'm surprised you're on the side you're on in this.

Sex is defined by chromosomes. Gender is invented by society, and has more to do with expected roles and behavior, than what's between your legs. Different societies have different numbers of genders, and different expected gender roles. New Zealand has 3 accepted genders, for example.



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While your clarification between the terms "sex" and "gender" is accurate most people are referring to sex when they say "gender". I could not care less if the boy wants to dress and act like a girl normally would. However, he is not female and denying him use of a facility that is separated on the basis of sex, not gender, seems completely logical to me.

Identify as whatever you want but don't expect others to accommodate your preferences. I really never understood this mentality. You make decisions. There are consequences for those decisions.

Before anyone says, "This is not a decision!", the feelings may not be but acting on them is definitely a choice.


So you choose to act on heterosexual urges, huh? I guess those unwanted boners during the teenage years were secretly very wanted. Gay people must choose to be gay. I guess they could live a lie their entire life, that's probably good for the human psyche.


As for the bathroom, since female stalls are generally separated by walls, who cares if a TS person takes a **** there, since no one will be seeing her parts anyways? I love how anytime a XY individual is going to use XX facilities, it turns into a witch hunt for the perverts. Yet if a XX individual walked into the "mens" room, would anyone care when she closed the door on the stall, and urinated?


Seems to be a lot of checking out and inspecting of sex organs in public bathrooms.....
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:01 AM   #36
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I also think we should all have underage and out-of-marriage pregnancies and move to Chicago or Detroit (fathers not applicable). It creates a very wonderful and prosperous culture; it really advances your group to the top.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:14 AM   #37
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I also think we should all have underage and out-of-marriage pregnancies and move to Chicago or Detroit (fathers not applicable). It creates a very wonderful and prosperous culture; it really advances your group to the top.
No idea how this is remotely relevant.



Edit: You can't knock up a tranny!
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:23 AM   #38
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its very relevant
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:27 AM   #39
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Edit: You can't knock up a tranny!
Tranny can be trans any gender, and can of course have functional female parts.
Something to think about during the next visit to the local gay bar (you might pick up a hetero tranny by mistake).
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:43 AM   #40
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Honestly Joe, you're a really well rounded and smart guy (likely college educated), I'm surprised you're on the side you're on in this.
The side of biology, genetics, and hard-science in general?
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