Gerbocharged

Hello MT.net,

As said in my previous topic - where I discussed and crunched numbers for the GT2554R, GT2560R, GT2860RS. - Here is a new topic where I will continue calculating and comparing more turbos of different brands also.

List of calculated and graphed turbos as of the 29th of November '16:

GT2554R
GT2560R
GT2860RS (deleted from graphs*)
TD04-13T
EFR 6258

* I, and other member discussed this turbo in another thread and concluded it would be too big for a (stock) 1.6L. (Slow spool/response, engine chokes up just after it gets going for more info look at my other thread.)

Since I've had some requests on my other topic to add some more turbos to my graph, here it is.

GT2554R vs GT2560R vs TD04L-13T vs EFR 6258

While there were not a lot of data/dynoplots on a 1.6L with a TD04-13T and an EFR 6258 to confirm these calculations, this is my most educated guess.
This time around I did insert a correction for figures above 250WHP in the higher RPM's since this is the moment the (stock) engine chokes up/forms a big restriction, so I hope this will look more correct this time.

The lower lines in the graph are the Compressor Efficiency lines. These vary between 60% and 76% on these given turbos, this gives a good idea what turbo is happy to work at this power level at certain RPM's.

The GT2554R is totally maxed out, it cannot spool any faster because it would surge. It also cannot provide any more power across any point in the rev range.

The GT2560R is also totally maxed out. It also cannot spool any faster because it would surge. It also cannot provide any more power across any point in the rev range.

The TD04L-13T has a little more that it can give, there is still room for faster spool (it's not hugging the surge line yet) so with either a better flowing or more displacing engine it is possible to spool even faster. It also a tiny bit left in the mid-range (3500-5000RPM) which I did not add in my graph because it would be less efficient and it would blast just past 250lb/ft at 4750RPM which I do not want to pass.

The EFR 6258 though, this thing is a beast when it comes to f**king sh*t up. This turbo while not spooling exceptionally well, it could provide over 300lb/ft of torque before you hit 5000RPM. When knowing this, the *average* spool time doesn't matter any more. This thing is ideal if you want to build a beast of a car.

I am not going to include the EFR 6758 in this graph because in my honest opinion, by my guess it will spool 500ish RPM slower and I has a bit more top end to give.

This concludes the first post of this new topic. I am pretty surprised by the results of both the TD04L-13T and the EFR 6258. Thanks for reading and please leave your feedback/opinions.

*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*DISCLAIMER*
Please remember these are all calculations, this is not real world tested and there is no real confirmation that these numbers are 100% right. Please do not buy any parts based off these calculations alone but do more research first. These calculations are based on a 89-93 Mazda Miata with the stock 115HP 1.6L engine. In these calculations I have inserted corrections for a stock head, intake manifold and throttle body. When changing these things (head port/custom IM/bigger TB) these calculations are not correct. This can affect it by a pretty big margin in some areas. I am also not responsible for any damage done if following these graphs.

Regards, Gerben

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Pretty awesome. Now how about 1.8 with all the same turbos

deezums

iTrader: (3)

I still think the MKturbo t3 would outspool all by around 500-750 rpm and still hold at least 150 torques at redline, much closer to 175. I have all sorts of logs of 12-16psi at less than 3,000 rpm. Probably not the best boost response ever, but it makes for a mean daily driver.

Since it's going on a 1.6, nothing else should really even be considered.

Gerbocharged

I may do that later on, we will see.

I have never seen any T3 50 trim break 200lb/ft (which is 12ish psi) before ~3500RPM on a 1.6 but I will stand corrected if it is happens.

But I do agree the T3 50 trim is a great DD turbo.

Regards

deezums

iTrader: (3)

12 psi by 3K is EZPZ with a stock 1.6 in my personal experience. 200ft/lbs by 3000 would be super easy with corn.

More benchmath...



As I recall, the reason I believe the t3 50 trim spools so much quicker is a 1.6 is entirely in it's efficiency range during spool, the GT turbos are all over the surge line and therefore won't spool harder till more flow is required. Therefore they'd be much more free flowing on the top end and hold 200ft/lbs with no tapering boost.



Imagine the purple dot, moved straight up to the same horizontal level as the yellow dot. Right on the surge line at 3,000 and 14psi.

Just my .02

farpolemiddle

Has anyone even put a 6158 on a 1.6? Probably not. If have the money for a EFR you also have the money for a 1.8.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Lars bought some TD04E something or other a while ago, i really want him to try it out... 63mm compressor wheel so not overtly large.

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

I plan to max out the TD04 on my 1.6, here in the next month or 2. I shall have info for you. Thanks for the comparisons Gerbocharged.

deezums

iTrader: (3)

I have a 39 trim t04e I really want to try, with pretty much the same basic t3 .49ar turbine wheel. 69.5mm, with the nice t04e style 6+6 blade pattern instead of the nasty old 8+8 t04b stuff.

I can't find a 49 trim t04b compressor map, but I think a 1.8 ought to spool this sucker just as fast as the old 1.6 wound up the 50 trim. Guessing largely off the difference in the maps between the other t04b trims, hoping the compressor wheel upgrade gives me a larger efficiency island for better top end. Guessing the 70% island will end around 30-35lbs with a surge line like a t3 60 trim.

I mostly just like dicking around, lol

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

oh good.


yeah im curious how that 50 trim T04E reacts.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

12psi doesn't magically equal 200tq.

I was having odd spooling issues on this dyno (spooling much slower than the street), but mine was right there:

x_25

There is a local guy running a TD04L-13T on a 1.6 and it makes 8-9psi by 2800 easilly. My friend has the TD04H-15G from the Greddy kit on a nicer manifold and that seems to spool almost as well.

Thanks for putting all this together, it is some nice data.

Vincentmiata

On a 1.8 a TD04L-13T will reach 19-20psi at 3000rpm, and tapers down to about 16-18 psi at redline

Gerbocharged

That is probably the biggest reason, yeah. It does perform pretty well though in my opionion based on my graphs (as far as those are right).

I am interested to see the results, looking forward to hearing from you!

Around 11-13psi on a T3 50trim under the right circumstances equals around 200wtq. I could have explained it a bit better, sorry.

Thanks for that little spool info, and thanks for the compliment.

Regards

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

My 1.6 TD04-13T at 10psi(maybe it was 12? lol)


And one of the logs when I was fuking around with tooning. 5th gear pull, slightly uphill, on a cool day (for AZ). And if you notice, EBC was already pulling open at 12psi, so there's a little left on the table as far as spool.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

"revvy" cam problems.

Gerbocharged

Little update.



Updated the spool of the TD04L-13T a bit, also added more boost. It is not totally maxed out in the mid-range but I do not want to break 240WTQ. It sure does look promising vs the more expensive ball-bearing Garret 2554R.

So quick recap:

GT2554R, maxed out on stock block. Could get more MIDRANGE with less restriction like a custom IM/bigger TB/head port.
GT2560R, maxed out on stock block. Could get more MIDRANGE AND TOP END with less restriction like a custom IM/bigger TB/head port.
TD04L-13T, almost maxed out on stock block. Could get more MIDRANGE power with less restriction like a custom IM/bigger TB/head port.

Any more contenders to add?

Regards

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

yeah the 50 trim t04e we mentioned.


i wish i could find wrxnova's old 13t dyno. tq was pretty much flat from 2k to redline (only running ~7psi)

Gerbocharged

I am having a hard time understanding what turbo you guys are talking about.

Please enlighten me, compressor/turbine specs?

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

@deezums has all that data somewhere.