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Old 05-29-2008, 10:05 AM   #1
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Default 1.8L Clutch Q.

So, I am close to boosting my car. Just need to order a few little things and fab up some stuff.

I have a .60/.63 Garrett T3 60 trim from an SVO/XR4Ti etc, and will be running a straight 3" pipe and a bottom mount manifold with a 38mm Tial gate, big FMIC.

My question is this, I have a 9 psi spring in the Tial right now, will the stock clutch slip at that boost pressure? No drag launches, street/track use, and autox. Trying to avoid buying a clutch right now, when I do it will be an ACT HD with a 6 puck.

170-180whp @ 9psi?

If the clutch can't take it, then I will have to pick up a lower psi spring, recommendations?

Thanks.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:26 AM   #2
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the HD 6-puck is rated at 260 ft/lb....
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:43 AM   #3
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I've seen FM say that as long as you baby the car at <180hp you can be okay with a stock clutch. The obvious thing to do if you don't want to buy a clutch right away is to just try it on the stock clutch. The worst that can happen is that it slips really bad and you have to do the clutch swap soon.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:47 AM   #4
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FWIW I am running a 99 (1.8L) at 7.5 psi and the clutch is OK but marginal. For normal driving and acceleration it is fine, but during harder shifts, especially 2->3 and 3->4 it slips quite a bit.

I think jason nailed it. That is what I am doing, though I do have an ACT clutch on hand ready to go.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:51 AM   #5
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The clutch may not slip if you baby it the first week... but the following week you'll be kicking yourself when you want to lay into it.
The best time to install a new clutch is when you've got the entire exhaust removed already (during the turbo install).
Also use that time to swap to a full-length braided clutch line and get rid of the curly-q hardline attached at the slave cylinder.
Also when the tranny is off is the best time to remove the bolt on the back of the coil-pack.

Big advice, when you reinstall the pressure plate, torque in a crosspattern at 10lb increments.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
the HD 6-puck is rated at 260 ft/lb....
Interesting, Scott, where did you get this info from? Every single number I have seen for a 1.8L HD + 6puck is 297 ft/lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonrobo02 View Post
I've seen FM say that as long as you baby the car at <180hp you can be okay with a stock clutch. The obvious thing to do if you don't want to buy a clutch right away is to just try it on the stock clutch. The worst that can happen is that it slips really bad and you have to do the clutch swap soon.
Yea, I just have no clue what tq and hp I will be making at 9psi.

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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
FWIW I am running a 99 (1.8L) at 7.5 psi and the clutch is OK but marginal. For normal driving and acceleration it is fine, but during harder shifts, especially 2->3 and 3->4 it slips quite a bit.
I just don't want to toast the stock clutch. I am OK with driving at less power , even though the setup is good to 250whp with a ACT. I just don't have the 400$ right now after all the other things that have added up.

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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
The clutch may not slip if you baby it the first week... but the following week you'll be kicking yourself when you want to lay into it.
The best time to install a new clutch is when you've got the entire exhaust removed already (during the turbo install).
Also use that time to swap to a full-length braided clutch line and get rid of the curly-q hardline attached at the slave cylinder.
Also when the tranny is off is the best time to remove the bolt on the back of the coil-pack.

Big advice, when you reinstall the pressure plate, torque in a crosspattern at 10lb increments.
I have the short braided line, I didn't know about the full solution when I ordered the part 4+ months ago from mazdaspeed.

The exhaust is pretty easy to take on/off so I am not too worried.

Thanks for the tip with the PP.

Whats with the bolt on the coilpack? I will be installing my COPS before boost.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #7
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red-stock clutch will absolutely not hold 9psi on the 60 trim.
My buddy has the 60 trim on his NB and his stock clutch was slipping at 7psi.
He Dyno'd 229rwhp on 11psi to give you an idea, but that is also on a 2001NB, but a restrictive exhaust. Hope this gives you an idea of what you will be hitting at 9psi, I'd say very close to 200.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
red-stock clutch will absolutely not hold 9psi on the 60 trim.
My buddy has the 60 trim on his NB and his stock clutch was slipping at 7psi.
He Dyno'd 229rwhp on 11psi to give you an idea, but that is also on a 2001NB, but a restrictive exhaust. Hope this gives you an idea of what you will be hitting at 9psi, I'd say very close to 200.
Is that a pure T3 60 trim or T3/T4?
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post
I just don't want to toast the stock clutch. I am OK with driving at less power , even though the setup is good to 250whp with a ACT. I just don't have the 400$ right now after all the other things that have added up.
No worries. When you feel it slip just back off. It is not the best solution, but it will work for now until you can install a new clutch.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post
Interesting, Scott, where did you get this info from? Every single number I have seen for a 1.8L HD + 6puck is 297 ft/lbs.

correct, i always think in terms of 1.6Ls....

I read the first post wrong....the stock clutch is probably good for 5-8psi. the more efficient you make your setup, the less efficient the clutch will be. It'll be borderline at best.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:51 PM   #11
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I think I have to find a 4-5 psi Tial spring, the 20-30$ is no big loss compared to possibly being stuck with taking the bus if I toast the clutch after I return my loaner BMW back to my buddy when my car is done with this bodywork crap.

Thanks guys.

Edit: Found a 0.25 bar (3.6 psi) spring that should do nicely, as long as the ebay seller doesn't rape me with shipping to Canada.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:17 PM   #12
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I post this in every clutch thread:

Either go with a stock "organic" clutch or go with a metal clutch like a man. The gay *** fancy materials never work right, always fail, and the manufacturer will always say you didn't respect the break-in period so they don't have to pay for their shitty product.

Be a man, get a metal clutch disc, and suck my dick.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Either go with a stock "organic" clutch or go with a metal clutch like a man..
How is a sprung 6 puck not a "man" disc? It isn't fancy smancy kelvar, just your typical copper ceramic based.

I was considering the unsprung 6 puck, but would rather not risk the drivetrain (3.636/clutchpack lsd $$$$) for that 0.1sec faster shift.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:29 PM   #14
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Unlesss it's a racecar or you like replacing tranny's... get the sprung.

The coil packs are held in place by 3 bolts... two on the top of it that secure the mount to the valve cover, and another one centered on the back of the mount that secures it to the head. The one on the back is a HUGE PAIN IN THE *** to remove and is largely unnecessary. It's not shaped like a nomal bolt as it only has 4 sides instead of the usual 6. It's a snap to remove with the tranny off. If you're going COPs soon anyways, all the more reason to remove it when the tranny is off.

You can see the bolt at the bottom of the bracket centered between the coilpacks. This is a 1.6... don't know if 1.8's of different years are different.

Last edited by samnavy; 05-29-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
The coil packs are held in place by 3 bolts... two on the top of it that secure the mount to the valve cover, and another one centered on the back of the mount that secures it to the head. The one on the back is a HUGE PAIN IN THE *** to remove and is largely unnecessary. It's not shaped like a nomal bolt as it only has 4 sides instead of the usual 6. It's a snap to remove with the tranny off. If you're going COPs soon anyways, all the more reason to remove it when the tranny is off.
Ah interesting, I can't remember ever seeing this info elsewhere. Thanks Sam!

I probably won't have the tranny off anytime soon, unless I toast the clutch, so I guess the old c/p's will stay on when I put on the COP's, unless it isn't that bad to remove that 4 sided bolt.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:48 PM   #16
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The bolt is easy to get too when the tranny is off... but for the life of me I couldn't get an open end in there well enough with the heater-core lines in the way. I ended up draining the rad and pulling the lines just to get that ******* bolt out. Since it's 4-sided, you only have an angle to grab it every 60* or so if you have a standard angled open end wrench. I tried to take a turn on it with a box-end but started to round off the edges (as there are only 4) and some sonofabitch (me) put the damn thing on with a 3/8"when I replced the motor and it was out of the car. There wasn't enough room between the bolt and the firewall for a 1/4" drive and I didn't have the proper sized ratcheting wrench.

I tried for an hour not to have to drain the tranny with no luck. It's highly recommended if you ever have an easy opportunity to take that thing off then do so and then throw it away so you don't ever accidentally put it back on again.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #17
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It is a T3 S60, keep in mind that 01's have higher compression, so his 11psi will make more power than your's, but he does have a restrictive exhaust which he feels hurt both spool and top end, and since you have a open 3" you will be good there.
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Old 05-29-2008, 04:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I post this in every clutch thread:

Either install **** on your car or take it in the *** like a man (like I do). The gay *** fancy materials never work right, always fail, and the manufacturer will always say you didn't respect the "well **** it's hustler, he'll never install it, let's give him the shitty defective one" rule so they don't have to pay for their shitty product.

Be a man, install something, and suck my dick.
[/fixed]
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