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ACL vs OEM vs Enginetech Bearings

 
Old 02-11-2019, 10:32 AM
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Default ACL vs OEM vs Enginetech Bearings

Hey all, I am in the process of rebuilding my engine, compression is super low and it hesitates/misfires in the morning. My original plan was to just restore it to factory spec but my tax return allows me to get the forged rotating assembly out of the way now so I don't have to pull the motor apart again when I turbo in a year or two.

This is what I'm throwing in:

Wiseco 83.5mm 10.5:1 Pistons and NPR XX Rings
Manley H-Beam Rods

I was going to get everything else from Rock Auto, which means Engine Tech bearings and Fel-Pro gaskets (the head gasket is MLS). Would it be worth the extra money to get the ACL bearings? I plan on buying a refurbished head and doing the valve springs/retainers/seats when it actually comes time, no need to spend on that if I'm not going turbo at the second. Also considering doing the Boundary oil pump right now since you have to pull the motor to do that too.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:47 PM
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Are you planning on a 400hp e85 turbo build in the future?

10.5cr pistons are not turbo friendly, unless going e85.

You want 8.6 pistons for turbo pump gas

You also want all oem seals and head gasket. Doing seals again once the engine is in, is no fun.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
Are you planning on a 400hp e85 turbo build in the future?

10.5cr pistons are not turbo friendly, unless going e85.

You want 8.6 pistons for turbo pump gas

You also want all oem seals and head gasket. Doing seals again once the engine is in, is no fun.
400-500whp on E85. Reason I'm doing this build slowly is because 400-500whp gets expensive really fast especially a $4,000 transmission that can hold that kind of power. Been considering methanol as well, that stuff worked great on my Mazdaspeed 3.

Edit: Forgot to mention the motor will be N/A on the stock ECU for about a year while I save up for the rest of the components. I'd rather have closer to stock compression (10:1) and then just run the car on E85 when I add boost to greatly help my power goal.

Question was for the bearings though, not the seals lol. I don't mind Fel-Pro, I've used their products a lot and they do their job. It's just the bearings I'm worried about because that is a pretty critical component to any rebuild. I haven't heard anything bad about Engine Tech bearings but I'm not sure how well they will withstand 9000RPM and 400ish lb/ft of torque.

Last edited by achulz; 02-11-2019 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:03 PM
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Is this a thread asking about saving $50 on unknown bearings and $100 on sub-par gaskets for a build that will cost at least $10,000 to finish?
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Is this a thread asking about saving $50 on unknown bearings and $100 on sub-par gaskets for a build that will cost at least $10,000 to finish?
Yep it appears that way
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Is this a thread asking about saving $50 on unknown bearings and $100 on sub-par gaskets for a build that will cost at least $10,000 to finish?
Originally Posted by matrussell122 View Post
Yep it appears that way
Okay, let me get something straight.

I understand the bearings are a critical component that I should not cheap out on, my question was more in particular to see if someone else had used them before and how they held up compared to more expensive bearings. Obviously I should go for ACL bearings based on this feedback. BUT, y'all are going way overboard about the gaskets. They are GASKETS. Literally any aftermarket engine overhaul kit is going to perform the same if not better than OEM, and for much less. There is ZERO point in searching for and purchasing all OEM gaskets and seals when aftermarket kits do the same job for much less.

I know it takes $$$ to build a BP to make that much power, but that's why I'm taking it slow and doing it one step at a time. Rotating assembly first, then accessories, transmission, etc. I don't have $10K to drop in one day, but I can do it over time. And while I'm at it, I'm going to save money on everything I can that is not critical to this motor making 500 crank hp reliably. This forum in particular need to learn something, and that's that not everyone can buy all the parts YOU think should go into the build. If it's absolutely necessary then yes, but most of the time y'all don't even have the experience to back up your claims that [part] is critical to the reliable operation of the motor. I've used all kinds of different parts brands of the years on NUMEROUS different cars, not one of them has caused me any trouble and performs as it should. It's one thing to pick on someone for using a $200 eBay turbo cast in someone's backyard but bashing someone for not using OEM gaskets when there are plenty of other reasonably priced options is just arrogant and completely stupid. Being smart with your money and saving where you can adds up big time, it's not a matter of being cheap.

I've been a mechanic my entire life, 10 years professionally. I have multiple welding certifications and tons of fabrication experience. I've rebuilt motors, automatic and manual transmissions, etc. None of this **** is new to me.

I hate to rant but every time I go on this forum the threads end up as "you didn't spend enough money so your build is worthless and is going to explode in 500 miles". Give people a chance and stop being so negative. Explain to them why it won't work. Suggest an alternative. You're only putting yourself and others down instead of growing the community and knowledge base as a whole.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:34 PM
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I'm totally on board with what you are saying, but you are the one who said "400ish horsepower". Unfortunately, for these little engines, that is past the mark of "just enough" for parts and pieces.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:46 PM
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If you can get a "racer" account through Mazda Motorsports, the OEM parts are actually really reasonable. My only complaint is that their shipping charges are high if you are only ordering a couple things. I usually try to save up all my parts needs and spread the shipping cost out a bit. If you are building an engine, you can easily make an order big enough.

The site isn't great to use, but they do have most of the parts diagrams to help you identify part numbers on there.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
BUT, y'all are going way overboard about the gaskets. They are GASKETS. Literally any aftermarket engine overhaul kit is going to perform the same if not better than OEM, and for much less.
That's why Felpro's oil pan gaskets are well known to cause leaks on some BP motors, right?

Tweak your attitude, quickly. This forum is full of people who have done exactly what you want to do. I'm one of them. Telling us how arrogant and stupid we are is going to get you absolutely nowhere.

https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...-scared-95108/
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Okay, let me get something straight.

I understand the bearings are a critical component that I should not cheap out on, my question was more in particular to see if someone else had used them before and how they held up compared to more expensive bearings. Obviously I should go for ACL bearings based on this feedback. BUT, y'all are going way overboard about the gaskets. They are GASKETS. Literally any aftermarket engine overhaul kit is going to perform the same if not better than OEM, and for much less. There is ZERO point in searching for and purchasing all OEM gaskets and seals when aftermarket kits do the same job for much less.

I know it takes $$$ to build a BP to make that much power, but that's why I'm taking it slow and doing it one step at a time. Rotating assembly first, then accessories, transmission, etc. I don't have $10K to drop in one day, but I can do it over time. And while I'm at it, I'm going to save money on everything I can that is not critical to this motor making 500 crank hp reliably. This forum in particular need to learn something, and that's that not everyone can buy all the parts YOU think should go into the build. If it's absolutely necessary then yes, but most of the time y'all don't even have the experience to back up your claims that [part] is critical to the reliable operation of the motor. I've used all kinds of different parts brands of the years on NUMEROUS different cars, not one of them has caused me any trouble and performs as it should. It's one thing to pick on someone for using a $200 eBay turbo cast in someone's backyard but bashing someone for not using OEM gaskets when there are plenty of other reasonably priced options is just arrogant and completely stupid. Being smart with your money and saving where you can adds up big time, it's not a matter of being cheap.

I've been a mechanic my entire life, 10 years professionally. I have multiple welding certifications and tons of fabrication experience. I've rebuilt motors, automatic and manual transmissions, etc. None of this **** is new to me.

I hate to rant but every time I go on this forum the threads end up as "you didn't spend enough money so your build is worthless and is going to explode in 500 miles". Give people a chance and stop being so negative. Explain to them why it won't work. Suggest an alternative. You're only putting yourself and others down instead of growing the community and knowledge base as a whole.
Sounds like you know what you're talking about and made your decision.

What's your question, again?
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:05 PM
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In my opinion, its better to cry once on costs up front, than twice when it has to come back apart and spend money again on seals.

Heres my take on seals and gaskets. If its a rubber seal (cam seals, mains, valve cover gasket, etc) get OEM. I've had plenty of fail-pro seals leak in a short time.

Paper gaskets, who cares really.

As far as bearings, head gasket, and "please dont fail and destroy my engine" parts, peace of mind is priceless. Gotta be able to sleep at night, lol.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
That's why Felpro's oil pan gaskets are well known to cause leaks on some BP motors, right?
When i bought my NB new from the dealer i preemptively replaced the front main seal with a nice aftermarket one to keep my damper lubed up nice for longevity.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:20 PM
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There certainly wasn't a time period where aftermarket oil pumps were being shipped with aftermarket seals that would leak and pop out of place. No, that never happened. And, if it did happen, installing an OEM front main seal in its place never fixed the problem.

What were we talking about, again?
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:28 PM
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This thread makes no sense. If you have so much experience and knowledge, wouldn't part of that experience and knowledge be an understanding that maybe some other people know more than you about these motors? And that some of the products they suggest are due to to those products being tested and trusted?
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
BUT, y'all are going way overboard about the gaskets. They are GASKETS. Literally any aftermarket engine overhaul kit is going to perform the same if not better than OEM, and for much less. There is ZERO point in searching for and purchasing all OEM gaskets and seals when aftermarket kits do the same job for much less.
Except on miata's FelPro gaskets do regularly leak. I have used dozens of different knock off cam/crank/oilpan/rearmain seals of dozens of different vendors. I have seen leaks from the majority of them. The cost difference between OEM rubber and aftermarket for seals is extremely minimal. Sub $50 if anywhere near that. It the grand scheme of an engine build, it is not noticeable. I say this because going back to replace cam or crank seals sucks. It is not hard, nor does it take "forever" to do, especially if you know the miata motor, it is just an annoying waste of time over trying to save minimal amount of money.

This is coming from someone who regularly uses $50 timing belt and water pump kits from ebay with zero hesitation. OEM rubber seals is worth it.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Okay, let me get something straight.

most of the time y'all don't even have the experience to back up your claims that [part] is critical to the reliable operation of the motor. . None of this **** is new to me..
Stopped paying attention about here. Just another person who thinks they're going to spend 20 grand on an engine, but an MS3 is too much money ATM.

Ps. FelPro gaskets do not work on our engines. They leak. End of story.

Last edited by ryansmoneypit; 02-12-2019 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post

Ps. FelPro gaskets do not work on our engines. They leak. End of story.
Just because there are dozens of examples over the last ten years doesn't mean the OP should believe you. He's right because Felpro worked on the Toyotahondanissanchevyfordbuick he worked on as a mechanic.

This is so reminiscent of the guys who think they can build an exhaust manifold for a turbo Miata the same way they are built for Nissans and Hondas and have them survive. Our farm tractor engines have terrible harmonics and those other brands don't have those issues. Those guys come here and say, "I'm going to build it like this because this worked on my Honda and you guys are idiots." And they fail.

Part of being a good mechanic is figuring out there are quirks to every brand.

Another example, Toyota generally builds very good engines, but certain models of 2.4 liter 4 cylinders have a known issue with head bolts pulling out of the aluminum block and others do not. But you wouldn't know it unless you talked to someone who already knew it.

Again, we are cheap skates and we do things the easiest way we can. Sometimes easiest means only having to do it once.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:55 AM
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i love when people come for advise, then start schooling us on why we are all idiots that are doing everything wrong.
adjust your attitude or go back to bookface groups.

I don't think You will find many people With 400 horsepower engine builds that run Engine tech bearings.
Most here run ACL or King Bearings.

I am no expert on bearings So I went with the flow And got myself ACL bearings, They work Fine for me

I am no mechanic, But in my Experience Anytime I used Aftermarket Crank shaft seals They all leaked.
For this reason I now only use oem seals And nothing else.
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