Ait filter size? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-22-2009, 07:04 PM   #1
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 493
Default Ait filter size?

I'm currently using a cheapo old filter and among the parts I am stockpiling over winter to freshen up the car and get it ready for the next stage of performance is a proper filter to breathe through.

The filter I have found is the perfect size/shape for the location it needs to go, but realistically, it's pretty small:
Air Filter Top Measurement 3.500 in. L x 2.500 in. W
Air Filter Bottom Measurement 4.500 in. L x 3.750 in. W
K&N RU-2780 - K&N Universal Performance Air Filters - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Now, I know a lot of the intakes companies sell have filters that are far far larger than they actually need to be - the whole, bigger must be better thing and all. And I've seen boosted cars with far more displacement/power using just regularish sized cone filters...

I want all of the components I use to be good for 300 whp so that I have some headroom and am not straining anything too much. Is this filter an acceptable size? Are there any rules of thumb when it comes to filters?

Thanks
-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 54
Total Cats: 1
Default

I just went through this same dilemma for my application, and from what I recall the big issue is intake velocity vs surface area. You want to use a big enough air filter otherwise you'll end up with a very high flow rate over a small area and not only can that reduce HP but also you will suck the oil out of the filter as the air is moving too fast for the size and reduce overall filtration. I called K&N to get their flow numbers in CFM and a small filter can indeed be insufficient.

There is also a calculator online but I lost the link, basically it allows you to calculate surface area vs. pleats vs pleat depth and filter dimensions. When I did the math I ended up having to upsize to assure it was as freeflowing as possible. I was using a 5" diameter x 4" length straight K&N filter that I since upgraded to a 5" x 8" length tapered.

I would use the biggest you can fit, however for real world application on the last dyno day in DE turbotim did a air filter on/air filter off using a very small k&n, having the air filter off was good for a 5 hp gain. At 300whp it sounds like you need a far larger air filter.

mike
mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 09:02 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

There's a whole article on Garrett's website about air filters and how to make sure you are getting one in the proper size, but it seems their website is down at the moment, here's the link: TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo System Optimization
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 09:03 PM   #4
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, TX / Bay area, CA
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 3
Default

Im not a fan of the K&N even with the oil they let to much crap through, check out these filters, Ive been running them for a while and love them. AMSOIL Ea Air Induction Filters (EaAU)
Gotpsi? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 09:43 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 54
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S View Post
There's a whole article on Garrett's website about air filters and how to make sure you are getting one in the proper size, but it seems their website is down at the moment, here's the link: TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo System Optimization
that's exactly the link I was referring to, thanks.
mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 10:18 PM   #6
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

K&N filters suck **** for sand filtration. You want an Amsoil filter, they also seem to have more stuff that fits in my air box.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 10:24 PM   #7
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,479
Total Cats: 116
Default

K&N has some formulas on their site for selecting minimum filtration area.

K&N Air Filter Facts You Should Know

When I went through the numbers some time ago I came up with needing more filter area than the Filter that FM uses I multiplied displacement by number of atmospheres of boost to get an estimated equivalent displacement for there formula.

I think this is the one I ended up with.
RX-3990-1 - K&N Universal Air Filters, Universal X-Stream Clamp-on

I got pretty creative and modified how my headlight motor was oriented to make a nice spot for it behind the headlight. Also made a nice cold air box fed by the TSI intake.

Bob
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 03:47 AM   #8
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 493
Default

The amsoils on the webiste are 3" inner diameter inlet flange and larger.. no 2.5's...
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, TX / Bay area, CA
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 3
Default

2.5 is dang small I run a 4" inlet on my holset. when I had my greddy I used a 3" inlet filter, I had a silicon adapter from the turbo to the tube and then the filter just clamped right to the tube, but I dont know how you routing is.
Gotpsi? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 01:33 PM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

I've been a fan of the RU-5111 for years!




and filtration is overrated, limits flow! if you're worried about sand, get an extra foam wrap and/or prefilter:



Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 01:47 PM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, TX / Bay area, CA
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 3
Default

The Amsoil filter is far better filter for the money, and Im not just saying that because Im a dealer, I wont make any money off of you if you buy one unless its from me. Ive used many different brand cone filters and find that the cheep china knock off filters seem to filter better than the K&N. Amsoil filters filter better with out restriction. Get one.
Gotpsi? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 01:48 PM   #12
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

dirt > $$$
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 01:51 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

What about...............

Automotive Air Filters

?
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
K&N Intake Filter nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 0 09-28-2015 09:46 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:56 PM.