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Old 02-05-2009, 10:26 PM   #41
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I emailed begi last week about a diy kit, all i wanted was the manifold turbo and dp. They told me 1700. I closed the email and said "**** off" in my head......A cast manifold, gt25 and a dp cost 1700 bucks???? LOL right........
Turbo: $800
Manifold: $400
Downpipe: $500

Doing it right the first time: Priceless
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:11 PM   #42
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the "Shanghai kit" is going to have a chinese turbo they have been testing for a while in house.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:43 PM   #43
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:29 AM   #44
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The Shanghai kits will have turbo comparable to the GT2554, GT2560, T3, and GT2860. I have been told they are ball bearing and oil/water cooled. That will be confirmed again before posting on the website though.

Tim has had the china charger on his car for 10 months. It is equivalent to the GT2860. He reports that the spool is not as good as his previous turbo, but I think he was able to assist that with a boost response valve (that we are testing now to put into production).

Yes, the long term reliability is still unknown. But the thought behind it is, if it breaks, it is cheap enough to replace.
Stephanie
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:32 AM   #45
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The Shanghai kits will have turbo comparable to the GT2554, GT2560, T3, and GT2860. I have been told they are ball bearing and oil/water cooled. That will be confirmed again before posting on the website though.

Tim has had the china charger on his car for 10 months. It is equivalent to the GT2860. He reports that the spool is not as good as his previous turbo, but I think he was able to assist that with a boost response valve (that we are testing now to put into production).

Yes, the long term reliability is still unknown. But the thought behind it is, if it breaks, it is cheap enough to replace.
Stephanie
Ball bearing!? I would have figured journal bearing. Those are my thoughts too, cheap is good, even if the quality and longevity lacks compared to Garrett pieces, its still much cheaper.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:04 AM   #46
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looooool
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:27 AM   #47
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Hustler...you are the reason I want to move to Texas...
if we're ever in prison together, I'll protect you.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:46 AM   #48
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Why do I have a feeling, your version of protecting me requires my holding your pocket liner?

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Old 02-06-2009, 10:41 AM   #49
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The major problem with the chinachargers, that I have researched, is that when they copy the turbos, they dont copy them exactly. Example. The wheel diameters of both turbine and compressor that arent even close to what garrett offers for the given turbo, on other turbos the compressor and turbine combination is wrong(small turbine, huge compressor).For example. The T25 they offer is smaller then the GT2554. The T28 they offer is larger then then GT2860RS and but has a smaller turbine.

This is what I have gotten from reading the sellers sites and what people have measured and comparing it to PDF's on Garretts Site. Its strange stuff.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:56 AM   #50
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No doubt. This would be consistent with the reports of people contacting various eBay sellers asking for things like compressor maps, and being told they'd have to determine those themselves. (?!) To me, that sort of thing is a much bigger barrier to accepting these turbos than questions about metallurgy and machining quality. The Chinese, as a whole, have gotten quite good at producing reasonably well-finished machine parts in recent years. They're building cars, for crying out loud, and while they haven't yet gotten the hang of little things like passenger safety and handling, those fall into the realm of design deficiencies, rather than manufacturing quality.

At least buying one from Bell, I'd have a degree of confidence that they've already done the work of researching the specs and supplying turbos whose size and flow characteristics are reasonably well understood and matched appropriately to the application. Depending upon where the prices settle out, I'd probably consider buying one for my next car.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:48 PM   #51
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IN for a cheap copy of a 2560 to play with for under $300.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:10 PM   #52
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The T25 they offer is smaller then the GT2554.
Heh, I'm actually ok with this given my power goals.. interesting.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:20 PM   #53
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Heh, I'm actually ok with this given my power goals.. interesting.
If it is indeed smaller, it is going to run out of steam quick. It'll spool at idle however.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:23 PM   #54
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Couldnt one have the housing machined to accept garrett wheels. Not sure how much that kind of machining would cost though, and if it would be worth the costs. Or is it more the design of the housings thats an issue with power and spool? Either way, Im still interested if they are ~$300 or less.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:29 PM   #55
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Don't forget the $139 ChinaCharger thrill ride that DVCN created:




and his build thread for those who want more details:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t11402/
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:36 PM   #56
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Don't forget the $139 ChinaCharger thrill ride that DVCN created:



and his build thread for those who want more details:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t11402/
wtf? it didn't explode or spew smoke or anything.

weak video.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:37 PM   #57
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LOL, 37 seconds, SON OF A BITCH!!! Looks like fun.

Any specs on the car?

Also, I see that his has laster almost a year at least ,since the first video is early '08, and he has another fromk November of '08
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:38 PM   #58
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Simply from a manufacturing standpoint, turbos aren't really that complicated... 1 moving part. The tolerances are tight, sure, but I don't think I would have a problem giving a china charger a try if maximum efficiency wasn't my goal.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The Chinese, as a whole, have gotten quite good at producing reasonably well-finished machine parts in recent years. They're building cars, for crying out loud, and while they haven't yet gotten the hang of little things like passenger safety and handling, those fall into the realm of design deficiencies, rather than manufacturing quality.

I disagree. But still, design is critical too. If it's not designed correctly, it will fail regardless of the material selection or manufacturing process.

Ever seen a Chinese tractor? Obviously not, or you wouldn't hold such opinions. It's amazing where they'll cheap out on a part. Say a Ford or Massey' has a 1 lb cast iron 1" OD piece of round stock that's tapped 1/2-13 for the shift lever to screw into. The Chinese tractor has a piece of 1/2" OD SINTERED STEEL with a 10mm fine thread that's not as deep as the ford piece. Shift it hard once, the sintered steel piece breaks. Of course the handle for the shifter gets loose because they a) didn't lock tite the part and b) didn't machine the threads correctly, c) used something too small to stay tight in the first place. So when you tighten it you either a)strip the threads, b)crack the sintered steel piece. Real world experience BTW. I had to make a new one in a mill to send for a guy who had broken 2 of the china-special ones.

I've seen WAYYY to much bullshit come from china to believe they know what the hell they're doing. It's cheap first, everything else second. Hell, go to wallmart and look at some of the **** made in china. Like a barbque grill for example. Bring a caliper and see how thin some of the **** is. They'll use four 8mm bolts to support the stand that holds a 80 pound grill. Or just bend a piece of sheet metal over on its edge and call that a stop for the hinge that keeps a 30 pound lid from flipping backwards. (note hinge is two 8mm bolt that goes through two 12mm holes that are cast, not machined). I mean seriously, they produce almost nothing that's worth a damn. And it's not hard to see.

I could list a million other examples. Chinese sensors, alternators, water pumps, electronics, anything made of metal. Some of their stuff is "ok" and it's true that most consumers in general want a cheap part. But some things should not be done quiet so cheaply. A dresser made in china is one thing. A torsion bar, shock absorber, pitman arm, crankshaft, turbo, U-joint, any gears, etc are a few examples of things from China I wouldn't want.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:53 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidude108 View Post
Simply from a manufacturing standpoint, turbos aren't really that complicated... 1 moving part. The tolerances are tight, sure, but I don't think I would have a problem giving a china charger a try if maximum efficiency wasn't my goal.
Look at it from a thermodynamic standpoint. What's the one moving part btw? The internal wastegate arm? Or the lever that's attached to it? There's two moving parts they've probably got figured out.
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