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Borg Warner R2S regulated 2 stage turbo in an NB Miata

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Borg Warner R2S regulated 2 stage turbo in an NB Miata

Old 01-25-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bronson M View Post
This is far from simplistic, now you have this huge modules to mount somewhere and extra connections to manage. Adding the transistors to the proto area of the MS is the cleanest simplistic approach you can take.

I still think you're doing yourself a huge disservice by trying to use a MS2 to control this thing. The boost control methods in that firmware is barely adequate to control a simple single turbo let alone what you're trying to do.
I thought the module idea was was really a cool thing to know, that's why I shared it.
Practical tips and tricks like this are good to have in your back pocket.

Also, an external solution such as this has advantages:
You do not have to remove the MS, that keeps the car on the road if you need it.
I MAY destroy the board while I'm trying to solder things on it - not saying I would, but not everyone's well versed in circuit board surgery.

Also, there will have to be control box somewhere with all the solenoids. Would be nifty to have the module in that box - with a heat sink - to wire into the said solenoids.

Just the clear any misunderstanding, I am NOT planning on using the EBC capabilities of the MS for the vacuum controls on this turbo at all.
All I need is 3 on/off outputs to turn the solenoids on. That's all.
EBC capabilities are reserved for the EWG only.

Last edited by Godless Commie; 01-25-2018 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:04 PM
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Sorry for my absence. I was working nights and weekends as a consultant for a company building some newfangled plasma thrusters for satellites.

tl:dr - why are you still fixated on adding external wastegates instead of using the built-in ones? Or are you calling pressure/boost actuators "EWGs"? (If so, that's a misnomer)
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Sorry for my absence. I was working nights and weekends as a consultant for a company building some newfangled plasma thrusters for satellites.

tl:dr - why are you still fixated on adding external wastegates instead of using the built-in ones? Or are you calling pressure/boost actuators "EWGs"? (If so, that's a misnomer)
JasonC SBB, please look at post 54.

Adding an EWG made the control scheme easier (for me).

IWG will be open in vacuum, and closed in boost.
EWG will act as a normal wastegate.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:08 PM
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"IWG will be open in vacuum, and closed in boost.
EWG will act as a normal wastegate. "

Are you talking about the *actuator* and not the valve that is actually exposed to hot exhaust gas?
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
"IWG will be open in vacuum, and closed in boost.
EWG will act as a normal wastegate. "

Are you talking about the *actuator* and not the valve that is actually exposed to hot exhaust gas?
I am talking about the "actual wastegate valve (which) is a flapper valve. Looks like a coin on the end of a swing arm. When open, it allows exhaust gas to go around the (exhaust gas) turbine."

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Old 01-28-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bronson M View Post
This is far from simplistic, now you have this huge modules to mount somewhere and extra connections to manage. Adding the transistors to the proto area of the MS is the cleanest simplistic approach you can take.

I still think you're doing yourself a huge disservice by trying to use a MS2 to control this thing. The boost control methods in that firmware is barely adequate to control a simple single turbo let alone what you're trying to do.
there's no room in the proto area of a ms2-enchanced.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:42 AM
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"IWG will be open in vacuum, and closed in boost.
EWG will act as a normal wastegate. "

You can keep the IWG and just change the *actuator* to get something that "acts like a normal wastegate".
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:20 PM
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Just a quick update.

The car is at the shop to get fitted for a manifold. I took it in today.
It is NOT easy to get an appointment at this place. Had to wait a bit.

My car looked like Oliver Twist among all the Maseratis, Ferraris, high end BMWs and one fully restored 1967 (or 68) "Mini Nova" the owner reportedly spent 200K on so far.

I gave the owner carte blanche, and he will do whatever he thinks is necessary, including, but not limited to, building an entire exhaust system.
Should take about 2 weeks. I should be back from Africa then.

After the manifold, DP and IC connections etc are done, I will take the car to my garage and remove the engine.
The head needs to go to the machine shop for a proper valve adjustment.

I will start updating this thread, with plenty pics, as soon as I get the car back.
Yay!

Oh, and I have absolutely no idea how much it will cost me. We did not talk about that. Better this way.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:24 PM
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Well, I went all the way to Africa, shot a pilot, came back a week ago, car's still at the shop...
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:43 PM
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hunting humans again?
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:30 PM
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Wow, not sure how I missed this thread.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:49 PM
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So I am developing a nested-loop pressure control system for my compound-hybrid. Like Jason mentions somewhere up there, I decided to go with 2 pressure sensors for each actuator. The flow through traditional solenoids is a function of the square root of the pressure differential across the average solenoid orafice area... so hard to make linear. This is not a trivial development, but if you decide to pursue the arduino route, start no lower than the Teensy 3.2.
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Old 06-16-2018, 09:24 PM
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Progress, finally.

Manifold is shaping up nicely,
Couple of minor modifications were made (I am told) after tacking everything together
And,
Turbo not hit block.

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Old 06-16-2018, 11:19 PM
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Awesome.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:28 AM
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OMG I like the Tri-Y solution!



I can't wait to see this thing running!
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:53 PM
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I saw it, it's not running, but getting close! Yes the shop served us tea, everywhere you go, even an auto shop, you will be served tea.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:45 PM
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i love Turkish coffee now, btw.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:22 AM
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Question on oil feed and return:

Since I'm feeding 2 turbos (single hard line to a T fitting, then steel braided teflon lines to banjo fittings on respective turbos), what size should my hardline be?
I am thinking 6 mm id for the hardline, and 5 mm id for the individual hoses to the turbos.
Is that OK?

For the return, everything I read tells me to use a 10an line (5/8" - 16 mm id).
I checked 10 an fittings, and they have 12.5 mm id. So do the turbo drain holes. Am I doing something wrong here?

Also, I need to use a Y connector to tie the drains together so I don't have to weld 2 bungs on the oil pan.
Should I go with a 12 an line from the initial connection on to accommodate flow?
Some local people tell me 10 an all the way will be sufficient, but I don't feel comfortable with that.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:33 AM
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Letter of the law (from Garrett at least) requires a 12AN line. Unfortunately, there aren't any obvious suppliers for a 12AN adapter that will get the hose end out far enough. I made my own, but am concerned about the repetitive stress from the large drain hose causing a failure either in the weld or the down tube. I will monitor this closely.

That said, all of the application evidence suggests that 10AN is sufficient.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:49 AM
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This is what I am thinking:

10AN drain adapter and 7/8 14 fitting:



Connected to same inside diameter brass fitting.
Hose ends will be crimped with swivel nuts.



I will have an upwards angled aluminum pipe welded on the oil pan, and clamp the 19 mm id hose to that pipe.
Everything will be heat sleeved.







I'm guessing this should be OK.
I priced AN fittings, and with the recent TL devaluation ($1=5TL), it costs a fortune.
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