DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?
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clutch questions

 
Old 09-27-2009, 10:54 AM
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im almost done with a 1.8l to swap into my 93, and its gone way over what i budgeted. all i need to finish it is a water pump, timing set, and a clutch. i want to get it done on the cheap. so... i'm thinking about resurfacing my 1.6l flywheel and buying the ebay stage 3 1.6l clutch. the clutch is rated at over 300hp and almost 300tq. i'm planning on making about 250 whp, is this a terrible idea?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:04 AM
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There HAVE been a few threads on this.

I'm assuming that's a 6 puck clutch disc. It will have the same pedal feel as stock(super-------y light). These handle more torque by using a higher coefficient of friction on the disc material. The result is a nearly light-switch clutch engagement. Not good if you carry passengers a lot. Is good for going fast on the cheap though.

A better route would cost more. Quality organic clutch kits use stronger pressure plate springs to generate higher clamping force on a regular disc with near OEM friction properties. This results in a slightly higher pedal pressure (plus in my book) and OEM-like clutch engagement. The ACT and FM clutch packages are good examples of this.

Another issue with the eBay clutches are fitment with some of them. I forget which ones needed washers for shimming, but Braineack experienced this if you search "clutch" and "fml" under his user name. I originally order an XTD ebay 6-puck ($125) but sold it to use a real clutch. Buyer didn't have any fitment problems though.

Your call....what are you using the car for?

I would keep in mind all the parts you know want to cheap out on are the ones that are a real bitch to get back in and change later. I'd leave the car on jackstands for another paycheck and do it right the first time.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
There HAVE been a few threads on this.

I'm assuming that's a 6 puck clutch disc. It will have the same pedal feel as stock(super-------y light). These handle more torque by using a higher coefficient of friction on the disc material. The result is a nearly light-switch clutch engagement. Not good if you carry passengers a lot. Is good for going fast on the cheap though.

A better route would cost more. Quality organic clutch kits use stronger pressure plate springs to generate higher clamping force on a regular disc with near OEM friction properties. This results in a slightly higher pedal pressure (plus in my book) and OEM-like clutch engagement. The ACT and FM clutch packages are good examples of this.

Another issue with the eBay clutches are fitment with some of them. I forget which ones needed washers for shimming, but Braineack experienced this if you search "clutch" and "fml" under his user name. I originally order an XTD ebay 6-puck ($125) but sold it to use a real clutch. Buyer didn't have any fitment problems though.

Your call....what are you using the car for?

I would keep in mind all the parts you know want to cheap out on are the ones that are a real bitch to get back in and change later. I'd leave the car on jackstands for another paycheck and do it right the first time.

i'm not so much worried about the quality of the xtd clutches, i did search and read plenty about them. i'm more concerned about the ability of the 1.6l clutch to handle the power made by my boosted 1.8
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:16 AM
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My post was less about quality and more about driving characteristics...which I would definitely consider.


If you have the money to build a 1.8L turbo setup that will make more than 300ft-lbs of torque, you would know, and could afford to get an ACT Xtreme.

The guys running the eBay clutches haven't seen slippage below 250whp. I think thepass runs one and AutoXs heavily. Ask him.


btw.. quality plays directly into how well it will handle the power. Be clearer in your questions, and clearer in your responses...hard to make a recommendation as to whether "it's a terrible idea" or not without knowing your intended usage.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:18 AM
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I have the ebay 6-puck for the 1.8, and it works alright but gospeed is right about it being like a lightswitch. There is quite a bit of chatter with that one. It works well on the cheap but next time I am going to make sure I have enough for a good clutch.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DrewLGT View Post
i'm not so much worried about the quality of the xtd clutches, i did search and read plenty about them. i'm more concerned about the ability of the 1.6l clutch to handle the power made by my boosted 1.8
Please do yourself a favor and drive a car that has one of those clutches in it. The drive ability in traffic is hideous. Why have a car that you hate to drive, when you could've spent a few bucks more?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
My post was less about quality and more about driving characteristics...which I would definitely consider.


If you have the money to build a 1.8L turbo setup that will make more than 300ft-lbs of torque, you would know, and could afford to get an ACT Xtreme.

The guys running the eBay clutches haven't seen slippage below 250whp. I think thepass runs one and AutoXs heavily. Ask him.


btw.. quality plays directly into how well it will handle the power. Be clearer in your questions, and clearer in your responses...hard to make a recommendation as to whether "it's a terrible idea" or not without knowing your intended usage.

the car will pretty much be used strictly for weekend street duty. there's one autocross that i go to every year, other than that it only comes out of the garage 4 or 5 times a month.

i'm just going to suck it up and buy a 1.8l flywheel and a decent clutch.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DrewLGT View Post

i'm just going to suck it up and buy a decent clutch.
As the other two posts above outline...you will thank yourself for this.

You don't necessarily have to get a 1.8L flywheel unless you plan on making a lot of power later. It doesn't hurt, but I found a deal on an ACT Xtreme 1.6L clutch kit and so I stuck with mine.

I abuse the hell out of it and it's never even batted an eye.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
As the other two posts above outline...you will thank yourself for this.

You don't necessarily have to get a 1.8L flywheel unless you plan on making a lot of power later. It doesn't hurt, but I found a deal on an ACT Xtreme 1.6L clutch kit and so I stuck with mine.

I abuse the hell out of it and it's never even batted an eye.
how much power are you putting down?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DrewLGT View Post
how much power are you putting down?
Unknown...never seen a dyno.

Just under 200whp on the butt dyno...so not near as much as you will be. I'm also running a 1.6L...


I was mainly referring to just driving hard...clutch never complains. My clutch is overkill for what I'm doing...and headroom is a good thing.
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post

and headroom is a good thing.
thats why my motor build is so far over budget. "might as well" has cost me a small fortune....
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DrewLGT View Post
thats why my motor build is so far over budget. "might as well" has cost me a small fortune....
lol...yeah...I'm sure it does. How I wish I had a built motor and didn't fear turning up the boost.

I would only seriously consider which clutch you run since it's one of your direct controls with the car. It can have a serious impact on how you feel about driving your car.

What good is a built motor and a turbocharger if you dread leaving every stop sign and shift?
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Please do yourself a favor and drive a car that has one of those clutches in it. The drive ability in traffic is hideous. Why have a car that you hate to drive, when you could've spent a few bucks more?
Have you driven a car with a xtd clutch in it? My xtd in my 1.6 doesn't feel like a on and off switch nor is driveability in traffic hideous.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:30 PM
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If you know how to drive a manual transmission then there isnt a single clutch for a miata i have not tried that is not totally workable.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:48 PM
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I replaced my stock 1.8 flywheel from my '96 with a lightweight one recently (when I changed the clutch). I'll send it to you for the price of shipping just to get it out of my garage, if you need one.
Just PM me.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:19 AM
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Which XTD clutch are you using, with what Pressure Plate, Throw Out Bearing, Pilot Bearing?
I've heard both really good and really bad reviews, but few people tell you specifics of the parts used. I'm only running 8.8 psi right now, and saw slippiage the other night while carrying a passenger at max boost. I thinking I may need to just go ACT, but i'm open to other options.

Either for this car, or the next.

Originally Posted by Techsalvager View Post
Have you driven a car with a xtd clutch in it? My xtd in my 1.6 doesn't feel like a on and off switch nor is driveability in traffic hideous.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by skidude View Post
I have the ebay 6-puck for the 1.8, and it works alright but gospeed is right about it being like a lightswitch. There is quite a bit of chatter with that one. It works well on the cheap but next time I am going to make sure I have enough for a good clutch.
My dad and I can both drive the car like stock. He's 64 and I'm a complete moron.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:54 AM
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The other thing to consider with puck'd clutches is the transfer of energy to other parts of the drivetrain. All the jerkiness and chatter gets absorbed by the tranny and dif (on the stock 6" 90-93, that's bad).

I've driven 6-pucks before... and for the street, you're outa your mind. For something that is so critical in your ability to control the car, I find it absurd to cheap out on a clutch, especially for a street machine. People say "you get used to it"... for $200 more, why force yourself to get used to a shitty clutch. Buy a good clutch... one that modulates well, is a bit firmer-than-stock, and clamps like a pitbull. Get ACT or FM and don't look back.

I cheaped out and bought a Spec StgII. I had problems with it that I caused... but after sorting them out, it was fine. If you have to go "cheap", get Spec, but that's as cheap as you should go. I think the FM StgII that will hold 300ftlbs is cheaper than the Spec StgIII anyways.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:07 AM
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ACT sucks. Every clutch I've seen installed from them had dog-**** engagement, and several have engagement so low that even with the max-adjustment you still have to stomp the pedal into the carpet for it to release. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever use a shitbox ACT clutch in my cars.

Buy the FM clutch, supposedly its Krishna's gift to turbo miatas...but almost anything is better than the ACT crap.

I have a spec S3 metal clutch and it sucks in stop and go traffic, its livable the rest of the time. I wish it weren't metal and hopefully doesn't beat my trans to death.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:10 AM
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6-puck + preloaded Clutch LSD = fail
6-puck + torsen = smooth as silk but for reverse.

If I can drive my wife around without her complaining too much, then it's fine. But I wouldn't hesitate to try an FM Stage II next go around.
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