coolant reroute sensor/begi kit
 

I have the bell reroute kit. I ordered the one which exits only through the rear of the head, but I think I got the dual exit one. I already have a plug in the front of the head. I have a 99 motor going into a 1.6 car.

I see no reason why I can't just leave the front plugged up, and take the coolant only from the rear. However, what do I do with the front coolant temp sensor? I'm running MS, so do I even need it? If I get the something tapped for the sensor, I assume it needs to go post-thermostat, like the original design.
basically I have this fitting:
http://i31.tinypic.com/2823l7m.jpg
so I now have no where to put the front CLT sensor on the radiator side, and can't put the rear on the hot side where it belongs. , behind the t-stat.


Now, I can use this factory flange, and stick the CLT from the front side of the motor here:https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...1&d=1187807095
but now I need a place to screw in the sensor which was originally on the back side of the head, on the hot side of the t-stat.

Thanks for the help.

basically, I now have to do a "spacerless" coolant reroute and the begi piece is worthless.

So I talked to BRG racer, and Matt Cramer confirmed that since I'm using MS, I don't need the front swtich. However, the pipe is in the way of the rear CLT sensor port (above the nipple), so I still have to drill/tap.

ok, so one more question. See the blue arrow on the back of the head for the 1.6? Where do I get this signal on the 99 motor?

Doesn't the '99 head have the same port?

blue arrow is the temp gauge sender. i believe the 4w head will accomodate it similarly.

what are you doing about a t-stat? if it's going to a track pig, you might not need one.

I looked at the back of my 99 motor today, and I only see a port for the green plugged sensor (above the nipple), and that's it. I talked to Stephanie today and they're essentially going to make a spacer for me (maybe change the kit entirely). It will have a port for the ECM sensor and the heater port, but I don't know where to get the lead for the cluster, but I know the 1.6 guys get that port from somewhere.

Its going to be a car I can daily if need be. If I end up moving like I plan on, I'm going to sell the other cars and just have this green one.

I'll look at the back of a 99 head today. I thought they had a gauge sender in the same place, but to be honest I've never looked at one that closely before.

Either way, it's a simple task to drill and tap a port for the sender.

Whereas the 1.6 engine has two separate CLT sensors at the back, one for the ECU and one for the dash gauge, the NBs have a single sensor with a three pin connector that does both. Said sensor, so far as I'm aware, goes into the head itself.

The 1.8 NA has two sensors, but I'm not sure where they are relative to the 1.6.

IF the resistance vs temperature spec of the 1.6 GAUGE senderr is the same as the GAUGE portion of the 99 sensor/sender that Joe describes, then you can use the 99 sensor. You will then need to tell the MS you are using a 99 temp sensor.

fuck, more bullshit for me to learn. I'm pretty sure the back side of my head has the 2-prong sensor only, but I'll have to drive to the shop to be sure.

any tips on getting the freeze plug out of the head? I'm too scared to tap my freshly rebuilt 99-head.

Its been surprising to see how little documentation exists on swapping the 99 motor over to NA cars.

did you have a chance to check it out?

Yes, what Admiral Perez says is the truth, with the exception that the NB temp sender threads into the rear water neck, not into the head directly.

Na 1.8
 

Just to document these differences for reference.

Top to bottom
Sender for temp gauge
Sender for oil pressure gauge
Sender for coolant temp to PCM

thanks ben. I didn't expect the sensor to be on the side.

the problem is this sensor is on the wrong side of the thermostat, which is where this problem started. What goes in the 99503 spot? Hopefully its a plug which threads the 1.6 gauge sensor.

Thank you Ben, I was going to attempt to answer this, but for the life of me could not dare for some reason as i was not 100%. Again, thank you for clarifying this...

Na 1.6
 

This is the info for the NA 1.6. Sorry this older page from the electronic parts catalog has a whole lot of extra stuff on it that I edited out, and while I was in MS Paint you eager bastards had to post and break the thread up.

18-510 is the temp sender to the gauge
18-840C (rear of engine) is the temp sender to the PCM
18-501 is the oil press sender
18-840C (front of engine) is the thermoswitch that activates the cooling fan

I left the bottom left Cali-Only caption there so you could see that CA emissions cars have the shorting plug at the pass dash. I don't know what it does. But even though it's not 100% relevant to the topic on hand, I figured it was a distinction worth showing while it was on my screen.

The part you refer to is simply a plug. I have no idea if its thread size and pitch match any of the senders.

I'll know something this weekend then.

Get one of these from BEGi:
http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...roducts_id=299

or one of these from Flatout Motorsports:
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/c...roducts_id/255

Either will allow you to put a temp sensor into the main line coming out the back of the head without having to drill/tap anything. I'm using BEGi's "upper rad hose spice" with a GM CLT sensor on my TEC3.

The other option if you are afraid of messing up your new head and you are using a hardpipe under the ITM, get a bung welded onto it and plug the CLT there.

but you can't put the temp sensor on the radiator side of the t-stat, it has to be on the engine side or you're going to have huge temp differentials from the engine to the sensor in the winter.

Why will this not work? I can use the plug on the bottom right, above the water nipple for the green topped senor, then hopefully use the plug in the side of the water neck for the gauge sender.

http://i28.tinypic.com/2dsn6fs.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2cpb1n9.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/210iyjp.jpg
1.6 car with a 99-head, FM coil bracket, 99 front water neck. lol

I don't see any reason that won't work.

So when you install this motor are you going to install your 1.6 CAS on the exhaust cam or do something else?

On the exhaust cam, how everyone else does it. Will it interfere? I can't check that because I don't have the 1.6 out yet. I just need to get a 160* bend water hose and I can use the rest of the bell re-route kit.

I wish i had thought of this sooner, but my damn garage is like a jigsaw puzzle of "extra" parts...most of the parts I plan on using are in labeled bags, but apparently when I get into the junk pile, I find cool shit like this.

I used the JR spacer and a waterneck off a Kia that aimed the hose to the coldside. I tapped the head for the heater core hose, put the small one prong coolant sender on the driver side of the 99 head right near where I tapped for the heater hose nipple. I tapped that 30mm plug that goes in place of the OEM waterneck for the coolant temp sensor, then lengthened the wires. The thermostat went between the head and JR spacer, heater hose nipple is in the head so it is before the thermostat.

My new problem with the reroute is the IC to TB pipe is in the way of my original reroute hoses. I have to get some more rubber coolant hoses to re-reroute things.

Anyone have an extra ignition coil bracket for a 1.8L. Mine is broken on the driver side where it bolts to the valve cover.

Hustler, the 1.6 CAS will go right in the '99 head. Only one bolt will line up, not a big deal.

I have the BEGI reroute too. Mine wouldn't fit with the factory flange. The sensor with the green top was tight against the firewall and the connector could not be plugged in. I had to put a freeze plug in the back of the spacer then I fabricated a flat aluminum plate to go on top of that.

I did essentially what Stephanie is doing for you. I tapped the spacer for the 2-prong sensor and also for a heater nipple. The 99503 spot is where I put the single prong sensor. It fit perfectly.

Haven't started the motor yet, hope it works.

fuck, I forgot about the heater port. This shit is gay.

damn hustler, if you post another pic of that motor outside the car i am going to ship a rabid monkey with aids to dallas to rape you, then bite you to give you the rabbies, then rape you one more time just to let you know who is boss, then the rabid aids monkey is NEVER going to call you back again.

I'm so fucking frustrated. I lost all the studs from my shit during ceramic coating, broke a bolt in the head today, still don't have reroute parts, some begi parts are getting shipped to the wrong state, and I apparently am missing the alternator tensioner bracket.

If I could do it all over again, I'd just stick with the 1.6.

Depends on what you're using the for I suppose. It's been awhile since I've done my reroute, but isn't the green top sensor the one that was top of the t-stat cap, between the engine and the rad in the OEM setup?

an idea
 

Install the thermosensor in the port where the bolt/plug is. Drill out the end of the coolant feed that runs to the mani and use that end as your heater core feed. Then chop/weld the neck on the mixer (or use a 90 hose) so it goes ~90* to the right UNDER the coil pack.

ok, look at the circle you drew...doesn't that little nipple go to the oil cooler, which is now gone? Can't I just cap that like my 1991?

Do you think I can drill out the back where the circle is and fit a 90* barb there? this could work afterall.

Where should I go to find taps?

Yes- you can just cap it OR you could feed the turbo... I can't remember if the 99 needs a coolant source for anything else on that side, but if not, cap it.

You might also be able to remove that piece using some of that CRC Freeze on it and twisting... Then again, drilling it out and tapping it allows you some room for error. ;) And it looks like it would put your 90 fitting far enough out on the head. Harbor Freight sells an NPT tap set for cheap. I've used them on aluminum only, but they never failed me.

btw- this is yet another place a cheap mig would help. Using brass fittings really cuts back on the internal diameter, whereas a right angle welded on using some tubing would retain the diameter of that OE pipe (assuming it's as big as it appears).

I guess I could also just chock the pipe off my bell flange, put a heater port in it, and get on with my life...I just have to find someone who can weld aluminum.

anyone have a link to the JR spacer? I can't find that shit.

Here you lazy bastard.

http://www.miatamania.com/shop/OrderByPart.aspx
Enter part number 051-046

What do you think about this ?

Wonder if we can get some dimensions...I'll find out.
Another groupbuy? lol

Edit: Dude I talked to is a total tool, says "the dimensions is 1 inch thick and has two holes"
That spacer is for a chevy small/big block, so if anyone knows the dimensions please post them up.

are you sure that's the right one? I thought it was $50.

I don't have time for that shit. I ordered the spacer, now I just need to get some 90* hoses, a barb, and someone to weld it.

What size barb do I need? I'd look myself, but I'm a few hundred miles away to check.

As sure as a guy who has never actually ordered (much less seen) one can be :fawk:

Here's some more wizdom from teh (dot) nets you can agonize over.

I have also read you'll need to:
- machine a groove for the T-stat
- drill/tap/weld ports for temp sensor and heater
- massage the bolts holes because they're a little off

Is there not a tstat recess in the BP/B6 head already? I thought there was from the fwd applications. Using the bowl type mixer in the photo would eliminate the need for anything more if the ports were used/modded as discussed.

that would be pretty baller. I'm going to use the one from my 99 motor though. Any thoughts?

I'd go with the coolant cap/mixer in the photo I posted IF the head does have a tstat recess in it. What is that from - 99 front? I'd cut about an inch off the end and take the piece to the parts store, browse through the rad hoses in the back and find one that goes 90* under the coil pack and then 45* rotation 90* bend towards the front of the car. Use a coat hanger as a center line to mock up your bends. I've done that for a couple of rad hoses and heater hoses and found stuff that would work every time. Then you'd just need to get the coolant sensor in that bung and address the heater feed. I wouldn't bother with a 90* fitting for the heater feed either. Look for a hose with a 90* in it and enough length to get the core at the firewall.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t.../coolroute.jpg

Yes, there should be a recess in the head for the thermostat. I missed the mods you are referring to. Most people use the spacer to move the thermostat out of the head allowing access to pre-thermostat water for the temp sensor and heater port.

If you are going to tap everything directly off the head you don't need the spacer.

do you have any idea how big the bore is on the proposed heater lead? I might have to chop off that nipple to be sure I get enough hose clamp contact. Is there any chance that the bore is too small to adequately supply the heater?

this is what usually happens when I buy something.

You may still want to use the spacer to give you some clearance for your hoses.

If it's the same wall thickness as the heater return pipe, it's fine. It looks to be the same OD from the pics. I'd cut the end off with a hack saw and see what it looks like. Worst case you pull it out of the head and then tap the hole for an NPT pipe nipple. That'll give you a sufficient ID for flow and good OD to fit the hose. I'm using some NPT pipe on my modded cam cover now for the same features.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...ntportsnew.jpg

I could, but look at the pics, I don't think I'll need it.

On mine there was.

I used the right angle nipple on the pax side and a j-shaped hose to get coolant over to the turbo. Where is everyone sourcing the turbo coolant from?

Sorry, I basically copied BBundy's re-route -- copying the original 323 GTX setup. I've used the blocked off port on the intake manifold (dremel out the block off, weld a plate between the bottom of runners 3&4, and add a hose fitting to direct coolant to the heater):

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...2_104_full.jpg

You can see the blue female AN- fitting that does a vertical 90* in the 3rd pic below.

I have a temp sensor in this line/circuit to send to the TEC3, so it always knows what temp the coolant coming out of the back of the head is (even with the T-stat closed):

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...2_105_full.jpg

There is also a temp sensor inline with the large diameter hose going from the back of the head to the radiator has BEGi's in-line port. This is the one that controls the fan. The fan would never need to be activated while the engine is just warming up and coolant is not going to the rad, so it should be fine to be here:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...2_133_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...2_134_full.jpg

Anyone see anything wrong with this setup?

(double post) -- mods can you remove this?

Sorry, I have a re-route that uses the blocked off port on the intake manifold (dremel out the block off, weld a plate between the bottom of runners 3&4, and add a hose fitting to direct coolant to the heater:

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_104_full.jpg

You can see the blue female AN- fitting that does a vertical 90* in the 3rd pic below.

I have a temp sensor in this line/circuit to send to the TEC3, so it always knows what temp the coolant coming out of the back of the head is (even with the T-stat closed):

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_105_full.jpg

There is also a temp sensor inline with the large diameter hose going from the back of the head to the radiator has BEGi's in-line port. This is the one that controls the fan. The fan would never need to be activated while the engine is just warming up and coolant is not going to the rad, so it should be fine to be here:

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_133_full.jpg
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_134_full.jpg

Anyone see anything wrong with this setup? I basically copied someone else's route that looked at how the original 323 GTX setup worked and mocked up the routing of that system. Can't remember his name right now.

msc- you're reroute looks complete and functional to me

hustler- you could use your begi piece then just take an OE housing like one in the pic below, chop off the flanged end and put it inline on the way from the back of the head to the rad. You could use it as the ~90* to come around the corner from the back of the head. Just plug or use the ports pre tstat... I'm sure somebody has done this.

http://i6.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cf/f0/fee7_1.JPG

I searched here for information on that plug once I noticed it was there. I would like to add a sending unit for an add-on coolant gauge. FWIW I did have it located on the reroute hose between the heater core and the tee into the radiator hose and it always read much cooler than the stock gauge. Installing the sending unit where that plug is would essentially co-locate it with the stock gauge.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...1&d=1213899633

OK so if anyone knows what the thread type is for that 99503 plug in the diagram above, speak up :)

That cooler temp makes sense. Did it rise to a normal temp when you turned the heater on?

What is the thread on your sending unit? If it's not metric, there's not much point worrying about the plug.

Isn't the problem with putting a temp sensor in the 99503 location is that it will only sense the temp after the thermostat (ie: when the thermostat is open? Hard to tell from that diagram, and it's been awhile since I looked at the back of the head.

Hustler: did you figure out your main routing out the back of the head? The 1.6 cap fits perfectly and points to the i/t manifold side, horizontally (3:00 position, direction). Not sure why more people aren't just using one of these instead of chopping and welding the 1.8 cap ??