Cooling... Reroute on a 1.8 with no Heater Core - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2013, 10:48 AM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 329
Total Cats: 16
Default Cooling... Reroute on a 1.8 with no Heater Core

ok, so i know.. SEARCH NOOB!
i did...for 2 months now...and everytime i find something, i get even more confused.

motor: 1.8L '97
Issue: cooling reroute

what i understand.

there are many fancy drawings around that explain the flow of the coolant.. front the front, to the back.
now, the water pump pushes the water past the cylinders, then out the back where it goes to the heater core which in turn sends the water back to the water pump and the hole cycle continues...this is what is wrong with the system even after doing a reroute..which may improve it but not completely fix the problem...the heater core may not be appropiate to remove enough heat from the water and bypassing the radiator is a big no-no
now, i don't have a heater core, so i cna eliminiate that exit....and the entrance to the waterpump from it by using the thermostat houwing instead of the elbow to the radiator (idea obtained from some random post in here)

my issue is the folowing:
having removed the front housing:


i now don't have:
Coolant feed line to the TB (a plus, cuz who needs that anyways)
Coolant feed line to the Oil Cooler.


now, i understand the spacer is needed because the kia neck will actually touch a piece protruding from the head which has the coolant return from the oil cooler:

i am thinking of shaving that off, but i am having a hard time figuring out where to feed the oil cooler from.

my idea was this:
to feed the oil cooler from where the water neck used to be..this means, tapping the plate and adding a nipple to it...then after the oil cooler, send that to the turbo for cooling (oil won't be near as hot as the turbo, so i am thinking it will actually cool down a bit)
then from the turbo, i'd like to send it back to where the kia neck is to be sent to the radiator for cooling....so, the motor always gets "cold" water from the radiator.

please, don't hate me for yet another coolant bypass thread...
but i am wondering being that this is always asked, why has nobody ever done a proper thread explaining it in detail?

i will get flamed, and i'm ready for it.


credits:

https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...e-route-21919/
Attached Thumbnails
Cooling... Reroute on a 1.8 with no Heater Core-wp_20130608_001_zpse43e4b8e.jpg   Cooling... Reroute on a 1.8 with no Heater Core-wp_20130616_003_zps7f1c1c4e.jpg   Cooling... Reroute on a 1.8 with no Heater Core-p1010067.jpg  
Alejo_NIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #2
I haz no trubo
iTrader: (2)
 
Oscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bolton, UK
Posts: 3,020
Total Cats: 114
Default

In for answers. Trying to do the same. No coolant lines besides the water pump to rad and back of the head to rad. I have a plethora of waternecks and thermostat housings, so I hope to do this without spacers or Kia parts. The housing exiting the waterpump looks iffy. I tried bolting them together and it looks like there isn't a whole lot of flange for sealing available.
Oscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 12:15 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 329
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
In for answers. Trying to do the same. No coolant lines besides the water pump to rad and back of the head to rad. I have a plethora of waternecks and thermostat housings, so I hope to do this without spacers or Kia parts. The housing exiting the waterpump looks iffy. I tried bolting them together and it looks like there isn't a whole lot of flange for sealing available.
i gotta measure, but i'm pretty shure it'll work...that will shure get rid of that pipe coming from the heater core...and make it look clean.
Alejo_NIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 12:33 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

You still need to run some line to the water pump inlet as a bypass. If you only bypass to the upper rad side with the oil cooler and turbo the car will take forever to heat up. My setup currently runs the oil cooler to the upper rad hose and the heatercore and turbo to the wp inlet. I also hate the living **** out of the coolant spacer but I really just cant find a better way to get 2 temp sensors and the lines I need to all fit back there otherwise. I'm tempted to fab my own neck up that integrates the HC outlet, my turbo outlet and the 2 sensors I need in locations that work better for me while still clearing the weird nipple thing for the oil cooler.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 12:41 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejo_NIN View Post
now, i understand the spacer is needed because the kia neck will actually touch a piece protruding from the head which has the coolant return from the oil cooler:

[picture]

i am thinking of shaving that off, but i am having a hard time figuring out where to feed the oil cooler from.
Just FYI, that little port on the back of the head is a coolant feed to the oil cooler, not a return.

When I did my reroute I fed the oil cooler from that port and returned it to my reroute hardpipe. On your setup I'd do the same and then either tap the blockoff on the front of the head or pull from the spacer at the back of the head for feed to the turbo and return the coolant from the turbo to the water pump inlet, whether you use a different neck and tap it for return or use the stock neck and block off the mixing pipe return port.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 12:53 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejo_NIN View Post
ok, so i know.. SEARCH NOOB!
i did...for 2 months now...and everytime i find something, i get even more confused.

motor: 1.8L '97
Issue: cooling reroute

what i understand.

there are many fancy drawings around that explain the flow of the coolant.. front the front, to the back.
now, the water pump pushes the water past the cylinders, then out the back where it goes to the heater core which in turn sends the water back to the water pump and the hole cycle continues...this is what is wrong with the system even after doing a reroute..which may improve it but not completely fix the problem...the heater core may not be appropiate to remove enough heat from the water and bypassing the radiator is a big no-no
now, i don't have a heater core, so i cna eliminiate that exit....and the entrance to the waterpump from it by using the thermostat houwing instead of the elbow to the radiator (idea obtained from some random post in here)
Why do you think this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejo_NIN View Post
then from the turbo, i'd like to send it back to where the kia neck is to be sent to the radiator for cooling....so, the motor always gets "cold" water from the radiator.
Sorry, is this a track-only car? Why would you ever want the motor to always get cold water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejo_NIN View Post
but i am wondering being that this is always asked, why has nobody ever done a proper thread explaining it in detail?
They have. There was a great post on m.net which was basically Joe and Jason arguing with a wine-n-cheeser about whether they are necessary. Someone asked about "that m.net thread with all the pictures" and I found it and posted it here, but now I can't find it... I think it was from ~2006 if that helps. In it they show diagrams of 99 and 01+ heads and headgaskets, how they changed, and how the coolant reroute works.

If you want a reroute without the heater core, try any of the hundreds of threads about that for information why it is bad/what you can do to make it less bad.

Edit: also search for 'hyper's coolant reroute' to see a thread full of fail. Members try to lecture an eggplant. However, just because the eggplant doesn't get it doesn't mean that the lecture wasn't useful.

Edit 2: found it: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=350182

So it was 2009 not 2006, big deal.

Last edited by thenuge26; 06-19-2013 at 02:26 PM.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 03:14 PM   #7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 329
Total Cats: 16
Default

i knew iw as gonna get schooled by one of the OGs from here..
again, i apologize greately.


the reason i believe the heater may be adding to the overheating issue is because that water never seens the radiator...u have boiling hot water just being circled back into the waterpump.
i could be wrong, but from studying the design, i can see how the water just loops around endlessly.

Florida stop and go traffic..and yes, this car will be tracked..mostly auto-x but hoping to do some actual track time as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Why do you think this?



Sorry, is this a track-only car? Why would you ever want the motor to always get cold water?




They have. There was a great post on m.net which was basically Joe and Jason arguing with a wine-n-cheeser about whether they are necessary. Someone asked about "that m.net thread with all the pictures" and I found it and posted it here, but now I can't find it... I think it was from ~2006 if that helps. In it they show diagrams of 99 and 01+ heads and headgaskets, how they changed, and how the coolant reroute works.

If you want a reroute without the heater core, try any of the hundreds of threads about that for information why it is bad/what you can do to make it less bad.

Edit: also search for 'hyper's coolant reroute' to see a thread full of fail. Members try to lecture an eggplant. However, just because the eggplant doesn't get it doesn't mean that the lecture wasn't useful.

Edit 2: found it: Head gasket for 1999 and 2001+ different? - MX-5 Miata Forum

So it was 2009 not 2006, big deal.
Alejo_NIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 04:41 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejo_NIN View Post
i knew iw as gonna get schooled by one of the OGs from here..
again, i apologize greately.
lol I'm about the furthest thing from an OG here, I haven't even turboed my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejo_NIN View Post
the reason i believe the heater may be adding to the overheating issue is because that water never seens the radiator...u have boiling hot water just being circled back into the waterpump.
i could be wrong, but from studying the design, i can see how the water just loops around endlessly.
Why would it flow through a restrictive heater core instead of a non-restrictive open thermostat and radiator?

TL;DR the heater core is there for the exact reason you think it might be your problem.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 329
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
lol I'm about the furthest thing from an OG here, I haven't even turboed my car.



Why would it flow through a restrictive heater core instead of a non-restrictive open thermostat and radiator?

TL;DR the heater core is there for the exact reason you think it might be your problem.
it was what made sense to me...so i guess i know less than i thought i did...

******* fail.


anyways,

the heater core is besides the point, since i don't have one...

now, one quetsion...feeding the oil cooler AFTER the water absorbed all the head from the motor/head....how is that going to cool down the oil?
and i guess you are right, u don't want a freezing cold motor...is operating temp for these motors 180 degrees?
Alejo_NIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 09:33 PM   #10
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,633
Total Cats: 1,559
Default

If you take water out of the back of the head, go through the oil cooler and/or turbo, and then try to make it go through the radiator, the water will only flow well when the thermostat is closed. It is about pressure differential.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 329
Total Cats: 16
Default

****, why didn't i think of that!
when the thermostat closes, the water will just sit there..getting hotter and hotter...

so, even if it recirculates in a loop..it is still moving and exchanging head with the other components..even tho slightly..but better than sitting around
Alejo_NIN is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Noob to Miataturbo from MA JxPhan Meet and Greet 3 10-02-2015 03:17 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:34 AM.