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Was - Did I kill my starter, ...? - Now - Please help me with my timing belt...

Old 03-22-2012, 10:42 AM
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Default Was - Did I kill my starter, ...? - Now - Please help me with my timing belt...

Hi after I redid my coolant reroute and changed fluids I stated my car today. Started well, then stumbled and won't start again. The loose sensor wire of my oil temp gauge might have hit my starter.

Now the car sounds a bit strange - like a wirring sound and doesn't start. Did I kill my starter or maybe?
After a while of cranking some white smoke came out of the intake... And I can smell fuel...

Maybe I give the starter a small push with the car in gear or hit the starter with a hammer...

I will also try to reload my firmware on the MS3 tonight and reload my MSQ. I think I might have corrupted the firmware...

Any other ideas?

Last edited by Zaphod; 03-24-2012 at 10:08 AM. Reason: HEEEEELP!
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:58 AM
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Shouldn't of killed it. I grounded my socket wrench directly to the power bolt a number of times, that's always the point in engine removal that I remember to disconnect the battery.

Mine's been fine, 120,000 miles and still starting strong.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:13 AM
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If the car is cranking then your starter is fine. I would look elsewhere.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:59 PM
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I am a bit lost now here...

As I wrote above - The car started at the first try, ran for some second and now nothing. I cannot get reasonable RPM readings in TS,

This is how the car sounds, when I try to start:



I suspect something I can't really believe - could the cam belt be gone?
I couldn't see a thing because of the covers and the darkness...

Please help me out.

I will try to reflash the firmware tomorrow anyway... And I will swap my DIYPNP and see if it starts...

Last edited by curly; 03-22-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:07 PM
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I fucked up your tube link, but it didn't work to begin with anyways. ----.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:10 PM
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Should be working now...
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:20 PM
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Looks like no cam signal? What does the composite logger report?
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:36 PM
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Gonna look tomorrow... After the reflash.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:47 PM
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If the engine is turning over really fast, it means no compression. I stongly suspect you've broken your timing belt. Pull your valve cover. It will tell the tale.

Fortunately, the Miata engine is non-interference, so this is actually not a big deal.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:22 PM
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No compression, no valvetrain friction. No cam-drive!
BTW, that 'white smoke' is fuel. No smoking...
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:08 AM
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I am a non-smoker - so don't be afraid...

I also suspect the cam-belt - the engine sounds so strange and turns over very easily...

I am going to pull the Cam-cover this afternoon.

Are there any good pictured How-to's about the cam-belt change online? I got the factory handbook but maybe there is something more pictorial out there...
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:33 AM
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You might as well tak a peek through the oil cap.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
You might as well tak a peek through the oil cap.
Update - so it's not the Cam belt - I had both the oilcap and the cam-sensor removed and both cams are turning, when I turn the crank...

I swapped in my DIYPNP and it's also not doing anything else...

Might have to swap another cam sensor in...
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:43 AM
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Here is a (very) short composite log:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1332499357

Maybe someone could have a look...
Attached Files
File Type: csv
2012-03-23_11.32.23.csv (9.8 KB, 144 views)
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:06 AM
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Not enough data in there, you need to crank more. However, the crank sensor signal does appear a bit odd.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:02 AM
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I pulled the cam cover to have a look at the CAM belt - looks fine - though it seems to have some slack.







Could you have a look if the timing marks and teeth between do look correct?

@Reverant - to get a longer logfile I will have to re-attach the cam cover.
Will do as soon as the timing verified...

I pulled a COP before I pulled the cam cover - there is no spark.
The MS3 is working - verified on the bench/stim.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:46 AM
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@Reverant - nd the others off course too - here is a little longer composite log...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1332513957

Please have a look

Here is a pic of my composite log:


And here a pic how the NB signals are ought to look:


Looks like my Cam and Crank signal are out of sync??? The two following Cam signals should be inbetween two crank signals - looks like its a bit early just before the Crank signal - I am no expert on that, so please excuse my bad description...

BTW - what does the red line mean?
Attached Thumbnails Was - Did I kill my starter, ...? - Now - Please help me with my timing belt...-composite_log.jpg   Was - Did I kill my starter, ...? - Now - Please help me with my timing belt...-f_pc8wm_5981b1a.gif  
Attached Files
File Type: csv
2012-03-23_15.41.45.csv (10.5 KB, 162 views)

Last edited by Zaphod; 03-23-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:58 AM
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If both cam gears look properly aligned, then it looks like the crank pulley has jumped instead. All 4 teeth on the crank pulley should be fully contained between the 1 and 2 teeth on the cam gear. On your log, one of the crank teeth is between the two teeth of the cam gear.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:33 PM
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I just edited my post when you replied...

This means a complete belt job I suppose...?!
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:40 PM
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I guess so.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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