EFR 7163: The new hotness
 

Looks like its finally out! :dealwithit:

4 housing options, from $1855 for EWG to $2100 with IWG

BorgWarner EFR 7163 Turbo - Full-Race.com

Why the dramatic price increase from the 6758?

Is there new tech on this one or is it just because its bigger?

You know what you have to do now

Some Indy engineers told me they've had a lot of failures due to the Aluminum Bearing housing.

I wonder if that will be an issue on a street car?

Its just a little bit bigger. 7064 starts off at $2k btw.

What makes me excited wet is the twin scroll housing.

Get a hew transmission before I do anything? lol

If my 3.308 keeps traction under control, then I am going to be seriously looking at the 7163 T4 TS w/ QSV, if Abe can make a manifold that keeps PS and AC.

I like the twin scroll with twin scroll manifold. QSV is for suckers.

Sure, but you won't be able to keep the hood :)

It is also possible that the 6758 may be the best choice for me. :giggle:

I want to see more applications use their smaller turbos...

don't be lame.

don't worry, I'm not.

I want a twin-scroll v-band

So when are you getting one soviet?

Not anytime soon.

I want pictures of v band inlet on IWG housing.

I had a 7064 twinscroll on my 2.0L WRX. Frankly, too big for me. I realize I'm in the minority and not chasing dyno sheets.

I'm not ripping the 7163 at all. All of the EFR turbos are awesome. Just for this community, 6758 is about as big as I think we ought to go. Really, the 6258 is plenty. Our drivetrains can take it anyway.

If I was going to build another Subaru with a 2.5L, I'd be going 6258 all the way. I like a low torque setup. For the miata, I wish they made a slightly smaller option. Just my 2 cents. V-band in and out. That's what I was holding out for on my next Suby build.

The 6258 is "too small" for the 2.5. Its not going to make noticably better low end than the 6758.

Subarus have like 2 ft long exhaust manfiolds.
I just want twin scroll, thats all.

Is the 6758 getting a v band inlet housing as well? Looks like treadstone has one listed (Borg Warner B1 6758F 0.85 a/r VOF WG V-Band Inlet Turbocharger) but full race doesn't.

I'm not sure the 58mm turbine really fits correctly into the 0.85AR housing.

If you upgrade Leonid, I may have to grab that EFR from you.

Turbine inlet? Yes, it just hasn't made it to resellers yet.

BW brought them to SEMA and PRI this year:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1387038558

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1387038558

MotoIQ PRI Link

^that's what I'm holding out for. Vband inlet on the turbine. I'd like it on the smaller options...

The real question is it the same size v-band flange as the Tial housing for Garretts?

I am somewhat surprised of the Stainless turbine housing. Is this common? Seems like thermal expansion would be too high.

Not common yet. Iron is easier to cast than stainless, and cheaper, which is why most in the past have been iron. But stainless has poor thermal conductivity compared to steel or iron. That makes it a good choice for a turbine housing.

I agree the 6258 is small for a 2.5L engine... however "too small" is a relative term. Jager Racing STi (100% stock 2.5L) dominated Redline Time Attack this year, winning 1st place street class at every event with an off-the-shelf 6258 and stiff wg actuator (this made a lot of evo guys pay attention)

yimisport just installed that setup on an otherwise stock outback XT here: A Wolf in Sheep’s clothing | Yimi Sport Tuning awesome sleeper build


this will become an option in feb-march timeframe. We try not to put things online that arent currently shipping and dont have a definite date

available now on the 7163, and over the next few months it will become an option for the rest of the lineup

yes

stainless steel is the ideal material for a turbine housing. thermal expansion is not an issue whatsoever

What "indy engineers" told you that?? There have been >>zero<< indycar turbo failures over the last 3 years, this is something we take very seriously. The aluminum bearing housings work great when watercooled (this is mandatory -we tested this in the lab) I was with tony kanaan, he loved the new EFR7163 turbos. Dario Franchetti's guys loved them... Andretti's crew loves them. Buddy Lazzierre and his dad were blown away. Bobby Unser said its the most significant change in turbos since the 1970s... so yeah the guys we talk to have no complaints. would like to know who you speak with

Geoff, The T25 version of 7163 is dimensionally same as the rest of the B1 frame turbos, right?

mine might be longer than that...

I asked that a few months ago on NABISCO and he answer, yes.

correct, the 7163 is the largest and highest flowing rotor group possible to cram in the B1 frame turbo. All of these B1 frame turbos (6258, 6758, 7163) share identical outer dimensions and plumbing connections.

Aside from the rotor pairs, the only hardware differences are in the way of new turbine housing options. We have larger 0.85 A/R in T25 IWG, Vband-IWG and Vband-EWG, and there is a brand new twinscroll T4 0.80 a/r IWG.. these will all carry over to the other B1 turbos once 7163 supply stabilizes. That being said im really excited to try a twinscroll 7163 on everything i own (F150, SR20, evo, bmw..) its a very interesting turbo. once i can get my hands on one, the 8374 is coming off my evo and t4 0.80 7163 is going on, i plan to use every bit of the comp map!

Thanks Geoff for getting back about the V-band inlet size. I have a Tial V-band GT2871 and have no desire to change my manifold. Knowing that the V-Band EFR will clamp on makes me much more interested in giving it a try sometime in the future.

no problem - going from a 71mm gt2871 vband-ewg to a 71mm EFR vband-ewg would be a great comparison. the transient response of the EFR is unique and since the 2871 does not shine in this regards, I think would be worthy of consideration. as others have mentioned - dont underestimate the 6258 and 6758, those turbos absolutely rock for the 44lb/min->53lb/min airflow range

Do the housings swap between turbine sizes on the B1 frame? IE say you own a normal 6758 now and want to put the twin scroll turbine housing on it, then a year later decide you want more top end that the 6758. Can you just buy a 7163 super core and put it into the turbine housing you already have?

the housings are machined for each wheel. you can use the same housings for a 6258/6758 because they both use the same '58'mm turbine wheel. however the 7163 has a 63mm turbine wheel and requires the housing be machined to suit. this size bore would be way too big to use on a 58mm wheel

Two HPD Engineers that design the Honda Indy engines. I'm not going to post their names but I should clarify, they didn't say they had any "on-track" failures. They said they were worried about the durability of the aluminum housing, so the teams were changing the turbos out more often.

I didn't know you could get Vband inlet turbine housings for these!

Geoff from full-race says the 6758 will be getting the V band inlet option in feb-march? Just got a email from Jon Guerra (Full-Race sales) saying there are no plans for this option.

My turbo stuff should be selling the weekend, Im trying to plan my EFR setup. I really wanted the V-band inlet for a simple clean install. But if its not going to be an option than its not worth waiting for.

Any one know anything more on this ?

My power goals are 93 pump gas 375-400 whp, Race gas tuned to what ever the limit is.
trying to decide on the 6758 or 7163, I guess if no v-band option will be available for the 6758 and i have to use a standard flange, maybe i should just do the 7163 twin scroll for same spool up with higher power levels, or less boost for the same power levels?

We're already had a car on a log manifold hit 400 on 93 with a 6758, thanks to soviet.

And if Geoff is saying feb-march I would expect them to actually ship in july or august.

not exactly a "log" but yeah

close enough.

It's not a log manifold at all. Not even close.

Its not a "flowy log". Not I need to check the build thread, I think theres a good picture of it when its back from crack repair.

its like an ETD shorty flipped down. definitely flows better than your typical fm log

Yeah, found the pictures, it actually has a collector. So not a log.

Yeah I think my motor with new cams and skunk2 ultra intake with a artech axial low mount will shoot past 400 with ease. So I honestly don't have a set power goal. What ever my limit is I guess. What are Carrillo super A's good for ? 500whp?

:facepalm: Just stop posting.

Sav , how do you think a twin scroll 7163 will compare to the single scroll 6758 ? How will the 7163 compare to a GT3071R as far as spool and response ?

I would expect the 7163 to spool better. It will definitely respond better. No idea how a TS 7163 would compare to a single-scroll 6758. My interest is in the large-A/R T25 IWG 7163, as it will bolt up to our manifold and should still make 500whp with good spool.

So being a total noob(maybe even knob) here, what rpm would one be looking at for full boost on a bp4w and utilizing a true twinscroll manifold for this 7163?

^ 3233 rpm

Its going to depend you your displacement and airflow capabilities of your cylinder head. I think i will be finding out at some point as i have a pocket full of cash and I'm just waiting for some emails from ARtech and Treadstone performance. More than likely i think I'm going to be going with a full twin scroll 7163 setup

I figured it would be a tough question to get an answer for. I would be happy if full spool before 5k. Yah, im saving my pennies now.

Talked to Jon at full-race today. Both turbos that I want are expected in March. So I'm on the waiting list for

7163 twin scroll internal gate
6758 V band inlet internal gate

I'll probably go with what ever one is available 1st as I will be happy with either. Maybe I will bias one over the other when more testing is available.

GTR?

Yes. Full Race posted the pic.

They regularly post pics of EFR's being installed on anything and everything.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1390793886