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Old 04-02-2009, 10:26 AM   #1
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Default Garrett Turbo Optimization page

Good reading and link at the bottom to download the info. A lot is here already, but other stuff I didn't realize - like tilting the center section for water cooled turbos to get optimum cooling.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:14 AM   #2
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im surprised ive never stumbled on this before. i need to do the math for my air filter and see where I end up...
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:24 AM   #3
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Nice. Did they just put that up? I had not noticed it before and I have read TT 101-103 about a zillion times.
I just did the math for my CAI tubing size (2.5") and I am OK according to their formulas. I am also OK on intercooler size with my 'little' 12x12x4 IC core.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:29 AM   #4
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I dunno - I was googling for info on dual port wastegate installs and that came up. The content there is more definitive then a lot of it elsewhere on their site - like oil restrictors and line size.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:37 AM   #5
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Water cooling is a key design feature for improved durability and we recommend that if your turbo has an allowance for watercooling, hook up the water lines. Water cooling eliminates the destructive occurrence of oil coking by utilizing the Thermal Siphon Effect to reduce the Peak Heat Soak Back Temperature on the turbine side piston after shut-down. In order to get the greatest benefit from your watercooling system, avoid undulations in the water lines to maximize the Thermal Siphon Effect.

Basically, what this says is:
#1: You don't have to hook up the coolant lines at all.
#2: If hooked up, the coolant has no purpose while the engine is running.

WOW! That kills off a few things I've taken as fact for a long time.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #6
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Damn good info. When I clocked my turbo I tilted it like they say. I didn't do it on purpose but I guess it's a good thing though.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:49 AM   #7
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I want a turbo speed gauge.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:56 AM   #8
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Interesting information. Has to be new, I've never seen it either.

I'm going to calculate my air filter's size too. Also need to reclock the CHRA as well according to their water line chart I guess. I set it dead even, it was the same way on the GT2560R from FM, so why not?

Also, I remember someone on here sent a hardline from their wastegate to the back of their intake manifold. According to Garrett, that's not a good idea.

And I want a turbo speed gauge as well.

Last edited by RotorNutFD3S; 04-02-2009 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Water cooling is a key design feature for improved durability and we recommend that if your turbo has an allowance for watercooling, hook up the water lines. Water cooling eliminates the destructive occurrence of oil coking by utilizing the Thermal Siphon Effect to reduce the Peak Heat Soak Back Temperature on the turbine side piston after shut-down. In order to get the greatest benefit from your watercooling system, avoid undulations in the water lines to maximize the Thermal Siphon Effect.

Basically, what this says is:
#1: You don't have to hook up the coolant lines at all.
#2: If hooked up, the coolant has no purpose while the engine is running.

WOW! That kills off a few things I've taken as fact for a long time.
I don't see that said anywhere in your quote, where did you get that idea? Reductio ad absurdum much? Of course it works while the engine is running, the heat either goes from the exhaust into CHRA into the incoming air, out with the exhaust, into the oil, or into the coolant. Remove one, and the amount heat displaced goes down and ends up in one of the other places. I bet that coolant is probably moves more volume than the oil line, and I'd bet that your oil drain temps would go WAY down, otherwise all the heat either goes into the oil or into the incoming air charge, both which are bad.

Coolant is the coolest thing moving through the turbo, oil is normally hotter than coolant (a bit), especially when travelling through a piece of iron with 1500degF gasses travelling through it. Coolant lines are supposed to be unrestricted, are ususally decently sized, and run at around 10-16psi so they might actually flow more than the oil going through.

Don't forget that water cooled turbos were designed to have that water cooling jacket, I have a feeling that the oil usage was cut down to less of it being neeed for cooling with the coolant taking over.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:42 PM   #10
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Good find.

Regarding blow off valves....
"Position valve close to the turbo outlet for best performance (if valve can handle high temp)."

I always thought the opposite was true, and that you wanted it as close to your throttle body as possible.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:51 PM   #11
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
#2: If hooked up, the coolant has no purpose while the engine is running.

i could have told you that. it's just to prevent coking the oil after shutdown.
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:24 PM   #13
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does it matter which way water goes through the throttle body? I'm using that to feed my turbo. eek!
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
does it matter which way water goes through the throttle body? I'm using that to feed my turbo. eek!
as long as the entrance and exit in the chain is in the correct spots. cant flow water through two hi or low pressure zones.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djcommie View Post
I don't see that said anywhere in your quote, where did you get that idea?
You mean where it says that they "recommend"... as in, they don't specifically say it's required.
You mean where they specifally say "after shutdown"... as in, not while the engine is running.

I had always thought that the main purpose of water cooling was to keep the CHRA cooler while operating. The quote specically refutes that. It says that water cooling is only significant to prevent oil coking after the engine is shut off. IT SAYS THAT IN THE QUOTE! You still feel as I did, despite the quote. I'm letting go of the past and sticking with Garrett with this one.

Your last sentence has me a little worried about your facts as well. You "feel" that oil usage (you mean as in the size of the internal passages) is lowered when water cooling is used? I've never heard that mentioned... ever. Do you have any facts?

After some research, I found a few more relatively reputable articles that specifically say water cooling is specifically for the purpose of reducing coking after engine shutdown.
Turbocharger water-cooled bearing housing - US Patent 4704075 Description

Towards the bottom:
Zetec Turbo Guide - fiestaturbo.com - Ford Fiesta RS Turbo, RS1800, XR2i & Si 16v

Again on the Garrett website, Oil&Water section 2/3 down the page:
TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101

Now, I'm sure the there is some CHRA or oil heat removed by the coolant and dissipated by the radiator under normal driving... but it certainly seems (by my reading and research) that it is #1:an inconsequential amount, and #2:completely unnecesary.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:50 PM   #16
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Yeah- I thought that was fairly explicit when explaining the intention behind water/coolant cooling the chra. I was told by an Audi mechanic (from way back) that manufacturers were more or less demanding it to get the turbos to last outside the warranty when abused (shut off with super hot oil).
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:01 PM   #17
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Thats a damn good read. Lots of little info in there I never took into much account.

When the CHRA is tilted, is it better to feed from the low side, or from the high side? Hot water rises, so I guess feed low? This page will surely come in handy when turbo time comes.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
When the CHRA is tilted, is it better to feed from the low side, or from the high side? Hot water rises, so I guess feed low? This page will surely come in handy when turbo time comes.
It's like the image shows:



You want the coolant inlet lower than the outlet. You're right though, heat rises, which is part of that Thermal Siphon Effect they refer to.

I just reclocked my turbo tonight because of this. The ports were horizontal, now I have a 10* tilt. Decided against the full 20*.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:44 AM   #19
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Oh ****, I looked right at that picture like 10 times and it just didn't click I guess.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:47 AM   #20
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lol It happens.
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